Question about Patches

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Question about Patches

Post by 79transam » Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:49 pm

I did alot of searching and I know that the MAA looks down on/does not allow the use of non earned milltary patches and badges except under certian instances. I did not however find a specific anwser for my question. My older brother has been in the ARMY for 10 years. He is a ARMY RANGER and is currently completing the training to become a Green Beret. Over the years he has given me many RANGER TABS and RANGER unit patches. I asked my brother if he would mind if i applied a 1st RANGER BN patch and a OD RANGER TAB to my BDU and he gave me permission but I wanted to clear it with the MAA first. Is this sort of thing allowed if i have permsion from the person who gave me the patches who also happens to be family
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Post by psionics » Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:57 pm

ya same here my bro joined up ten years to. he's a ranger stationed in ft. drum. my only bdu contains all of his patches such as pathfinder, his staff sergeant patches, ranger, airborne, his 10th mountain division patch, air assault patch and a couple of others since he gave it to me like this in person i assumed it was fine to wear it.
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Post by THE ARCHANGEL » Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:00 pm

YOUR brother being OK with YOU doing it is not the same as EVERYONE in the Army being OK with it....

If you want to come to an MAA game, that is not a themed game....then please don't. If you are actually setting up a themed uniform then there are some allowances but as a whole just sewing on some real military patches for looks is frowned upon.

*There are also a lot of other games than MAA games....and it's not to say that you're gonna get messed with or have someone walk over and rip off your patches at an MAA game. But I will say this....I think less of wannabe's and posers....which as far as I'm concerned is what people who wear patches they didn't earn are. To be perfectly blunt....it disgusts me. That's just me.... Other's differ....and technically the "rule" is for MAA Members, not for non-members.

I know you think it's cool your brothers gave you uniforms, and they probably think it's a kick to have you guys where them....but your brothers do not speak for the thousands of other soldiers out there who earned those ribbons. In the end it's you call....

I will add one more thing though....if people wear patches and claim to be soldiers....and are not....they will get banned form MAA events. Impersonating a Soldier, aside from being a felony, is a burning offense in these parts and we have NO tolerance for that crap. We will follow up with the appropriate authorities to make sure you get busted. Also, if you don't know EXACTLY what your family Member does in the Military, don't talk like you know about it. Nothing pisses active and veteran soldiers off than people spouting off crap....of course other than the impersonating thing....
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Post by 79transam » Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:05 pm

Thanks thats the infofmation i was looking for. I do not want to offend anyone thats why I asked
Thanks
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Post by THE ARCHANGEL » Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:10 pm

Word. I don't mean to come off sounding like a jerk....but I really do have strong feelings on this subject.
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Post by 79transam » Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:21 pm

as do I, I did not think you were comming across as a jerk. My family has a very rich milltary history so I just want to make sure I am not offending them or anyone else. On a side note is the US ARMY patch on the left chest allowed?

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Post by THE ARCHANGEL » Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:24 pm

Are you in the US Army? If not, it's the same as any other US Military patch. I will admit I have less issues with foreign military patches....or with being a Kilngon, a Clone Trooper, a Mandalorian, or any number of other Science Fiction related things.
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Post by bikemancs » Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:00 pm

My personal feelings on this subject are a little more rash. while I do not obejct to the "U.S. ARMY" patch, I do object to Airborne, Air Assault, and other tabs. If I were to see you wearing a Ranger patch at a non-themed game, I would take it up with you on the side. If I were to see it again... I wouldn't be as pleasant.

I've had issue playing in Chicago as I've seen the patches a little bit more often, but as a guest, and as an Association that does not concern itself with patches I've had to bite my tounge.

A Ranger tab is a very difficult tab to earn. Many attempt and do not make it.

My National Guard unit draws soldiers from St. John's Northwestern Military Academy. the "elite" Unit is a "Raider" Platoon. they use the same setup as the regular Ranger tab. I have seen more than on one occasion, a Ranger confront the individual until a closer inspection of the "Raider" tab is completed.

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Post by Revelation » Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:19 pm

Likewise,

Its a No-No at my field as well. I do make exceptions for WW2 actors.
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Post by Risto » Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:35 pm

Ay Rev, how about Nam posers?
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Post by Revelation » Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:48 pm

Its really only about the reinactor(s) that we care about :p
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Post by psionics » Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:28 pm

THE ARCHANGEL wrote:
I will add one more thing though....if people wear patches and claim to be soldiers....and are not....they will get banned form MAA events. Impersonating a Soldier, aside from being a felony, is a burning offense in these parts and we have NO tolerance for that crap. We will follow up with the appropriate authorities to make sure you get busted. Also, if you don't know EXACTLY what your family Member does in the Military, don't talk like you know about it. Nothing pisses active and veteran soldiers off than people spouting off crap....of course other than the impersonating thing....
no shit i feel the same way i never impersonate my brother i'm proud of what he has done and hes earned it. and i do know what my brother does. i still find it weird when i will where the BDU sometimes and a kid at school will ask if im in the army. :o
how would i go about removing patvhes by the way?
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Post by bikemancs » Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:55 pm

stretch the sleeve out, take a knife or a small pair of scissors, cut parallel to the patch, right behind it, and then either pull or keep cutting... it makes sense if you pay attention

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Post by K9Troop » Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:05 pm

Or cut the thread from the inside of the jacket, either method works. You can also purchase a "seam ripper" from Target for a couple of bucks, that way you'll ensure that you don't rip or cut a hole in your uni...

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Post by Erik » Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:46 pm

Once again this topic shows up...my usual response:

On this issue of doing unit or soldier impressions - as long as the impression is authentic, I have no problem with that. You want the insignia to be accurate to your impression and team role (ie, don't go awarding yourself a command rank unless you are in command).

So if you are "re-enacting" that's okay with me, and most vets I know don't have a problem with it.

Having said that, there is some behavior I disagree with:

1. Simply slapping a patch on your uniform without any intention of creating an authentic uniform impression. If you are not "re-enacting" you are misusing the insignia.

2. Co-opting an exisiting insignia for the use of your own team. Again, this is okay if your team is re-enacting and the insignia fits your specific impression.

3. Pretending to be something you are not. If you are re-enacting, admit it. If anyone asks you if you are re-enacting, tell them the truth. Don't go wearing your uniform out in public and/or giving people the false impression you are a real soldier or veteran.

I know some others disagree, but that is what makes this country great :)
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Post by 79transam » Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:40 am

All very good vaild points. I asked a similar queston over on the WAA board and somebody mentioned something about the flag patch. Is having the flag patch on your arm an Issue? I guess I would think its not considering that I am an American and I display the flag on my wall and on my hockey helmet

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Post by THE ARCHANGEL » Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:16 am

No issues with flags at all. You are an American and that is your right.... There is some controversy surrounding wearing OD or alternate colored US Flags (it was recently ruled that wearing alternate colored flags was nopt paying respect to those who risk and have died for the old red, white, & blue. This isn't an MAA thing, this is a US Military thing). Regardless US flags are OK, but I'd suggest rather than sewing it on, to get velcro and sewing that on to your BDU's. That way you can switch patches if you need/want.
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Post by Koz » Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:28 am

psionics wrote:i still find it weird when i will where the BDU sometimes and a kid at school will ask if im in the army.
Easy way to get around this.....Don't wear your BDU to school.

I refrain from wearing my BDUs in public as much as possible for that very reason, I don't want people thinking i'm a soldier when I am actually not.
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Post by bikemancs » Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:45 am

I would not recommend wearing US Military BDUs to school, now if you want those Urban Black Grey and White BDU pants that you can pick up in Hot Topic or something, go for it....

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Post by Gingerbreadman » Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:38 am

People used to wear all kinds of BDUs at my school. I just tried to ignore them. I don't really like wearing my BDUs to and from airsoft fields.
Gotta get back in the game.

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Post by psionics » Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:38 pm

i usually dont wear em but that day it was cold and all my coats got too small for winter so i threw that on
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Post by LT Tahoe » Sat Jul 29, 2006 8:41 am

Just so everyone's clear--wearing the "US ARMY" nametape is actually more serious than unit patches. Technically, you can wear any uniform items you want except that (or MARINES etc.); you could have an SF patch and triple tabs, and it's legal. If you wear the military branch nametape you're impersonating a member of the Armed Forces.

At a game, it's different--you are on a field full of reenactors, basically. But when you leave, you shouldn't be wearing that nametape. Individuals may hassle you about the rest of it--as they should--but it isn't technically illegal (unless you tell people - or imply - that you are in the military).

My personal feelings are similar to what's been voiced by Erik and Archangel. If you're doing a serious impression, and you behave in a mature manner that shows respect for the US Armed Forces, then I'm OK with it on the field. Don't meet those criteria, and we'll have problems.

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Post by Viper » Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:31 pm

On my BDU jacket I have: reversed OD Flag patch (right shoulder), U.S. ARMY tape above left breast pocket, NAME tape above right breast pocket, Sergeant First Class rank on the collar, a basic parachute badge, infantryman badge, Special Forces and Ranger tabs and an OD unit patch on the left shoulder (I believe it's an intelligence unit, it looks just like the Special Forces unit patch, but the lightning bolts are horizontally reversed).

The flag, name tape, rank, and special forces tapes I've added, the rest were on the jacket when I got it.

I originally put all of these on the jacket when I played paintball and was trying to get a team started ("Ghosts" themed, like in Ghost Recon).

As far as I know, the patches, locations, etc. are all accurate. I'm not, nor do I claim to be in the armed forces.

Are these best removed for play at MAA games?

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Post by JasumX » Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:35 pm

Given previous posts by the vets, unless you are using accurate weapons as well and want to be a reinactor yes remove them.
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Post by Viper » Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:02 pm

JasumX wrote:Given previous posts by the vets, unless you are using accurate weapons as well and want to be a reinactor yes remove them.
I've got an M4 R.I.S. with camo paintjob and a 1911, with BHI Special Forces LB vest and other tac gear. Are re-enactors designated, or does it simply mean I try to go for an accurate loadout and such?

I probably won't be wearing my BDU jacket Saturday anyways, and I've got a few other BDU jackets... but for future reference, figured I'd ask :D.

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Post by Venom » Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:05 pm

If you are creating an accurate reenactment of a specific unit, then it's OK. There is no "approvals process" or anything like that for reenactors. Red Leader for example, has a Sgt rank on his BDU, but he has an accurate WWII uniform and gun.

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Post by LT Tahoe » Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:42 pm

I doubt it's an "accurate WW2 uniform" if he's weaaring BDUs...?

As stated above a couple times, if you are really going for authenticity then patches are a possibility; they increase the accuracy of your impression. If you just throw them on because they're cool, and wear it with your Nikes and sweatpants, then it's not authentic.

The thought process there is that if you are willing to go to great lengths to research and build an authentic loadout/uniform, you probably are serious about the game as well and won't act like an idiot and bring dishonor to the uniform.

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Post by JasumX » Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:41 pm

I think he was talking about RedLeaders outfit... which to my knowlege is completely authentic (right down to the cup he drinks from).
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Post by K9Troop » Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:47 pm

LT was referring to Venom calling RedLeader's WWII uniform BDU's. BDU's (Battle Dress Uniform) is the nomeclature used for the woodland patterned camoflauge uniform the U.S. Army wore prior to the issue of the ACU. If Venom would have called them WWII accurate fatigues then LT would have had nada to say.
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Post by JasumX » Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:55 pm

ahhhh I see. I thought any sort of military combat uniform was a BDU, but I guess fatigues makes more sense now that I think about it. Thanks for the info :)
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Post by bikemancs » Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:15 am

JasumX wrote:ahhhh I see. I thought any sort of military combat uniform was a BDU, but I guess fatigues makes more sense now that I think about it. Thanks for the info :)
BDU refers to the "woodland" pattern that is so prevalent in Today's Surplus stores.

DCU=3 color desert patern currently in use
ACU=New patern
"Chocolate Chip"=6 color pattern used (famously) in Desert Shield/Storm (Jarhead)
"O.D.s" = Vietnam era OD Green only (also fatigues)
Jungles= Jungle striped from Vietnam era (note, there are about 5 different color variations I know of for this uniform)
Fatigues refer to the WWII stuff... there's other names that I can't think of right now...

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Post by Irish » Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:21 am

I like the topic.

Here's my noob opinion:

I feel like a poser everytime I pick up a airsoft gun and run around in the woods. I'm cool with it. The patches or badges don't bother me(poser). In fact, I thinks it's kind of a cool tribute( as long as it's legal). I won't be wearing any badges/patches myself, except for the American flag. I certainly understand those who oppose posers wearing authentic military badges they didn't earn. But aren't we all posing a little. I mean it's not like we're shootin real bullets.
Last edited by Irish on Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:50 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Venom » Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:10 pm

k9troop wrote:LT was referring to Venom calling RedLeader's WWII uniform BDU's. BDU's (Battle Dress Uniform) is the nomeclature used for the woodland patterned camoflauge uniform the U.S. Army wore prior to the issue of the ACU. If Venom would have called them WWII accurate fatigues then LT would have had nada to say.
Well excuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me!

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Post by K9Troop » Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:15 pm

Venom wrote:Well excuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me!
Part of that was also picking on LT's anal retentiveness...
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Post by Red Leader » Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:44 pm

just for clarification on my part, i had resurched this role/uniform for 4 moNths before putting anything togethger, i had actually joined the 2nd ranger battalion re-enactors in Euw-claire, wisconson (spelling) and would be playing with them but most of their games are way out there and I do not have the money to travel abroad. i am also, hopefully, going to get the more historicly correct od#3 clothes from atthefront.com this winter.

and just to clairify for yall, i am a technical sargent, not a sargent first class.

http://www.sproe.com/r/rank-enlisted.html
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Post by 79transam » Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:28 pm

Hey red leader. I live in Eau Claire WI. If your in town sometime let me know.

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Post by Red Leader » Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:50 pm

for those who would like to do reenacting and play airsoft, here is the group i am part of:

http://www.freewebs.com/2ndrangersairsoft/about.htm

and 79transam, i have a friend who lives in hudson, next time we hang out i'll give u a jingle ok?[/url]
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Post by LT Tahoe » Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:36 pm

k9troop wrote:
Venom wrote:Well excuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me!
Part of that was also picking on LT's anal retentiveness...
Aaaaaand roger! :)


Anyone in a serious re-enacting group shouldn't have to worry about this, I would think! I don't expect airsofters to have that level of detail, but a serious effort should be good.

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Post by DonkeyPunch28 » Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:54 pm

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Post by Goose » Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:17 am

I am all for military patches,but like alot of people have said, do it in an accurate manner. For example, recreating Rangers. If you have a RACK(or LBV that is USGI), MICH helmet(or Kevlar), and M4 or another of the actual unit weapons, then I can see this as being perfectly fine. Thats is because you are making an effort to recreate that actual unit. Now, if you go out with a MP5, some black tactical vest you found on ebay, and a cheap ass boonie,than obviously you are not making an effort. Recreating actual units does cost money,and takes alot of reserarch, so you have to be serious with it.
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my 2 cents

Post by bear » Sun Aug 13, 2006 9:37 pm

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.......my 2 cents;)

In my opinion, it would be more appropriate to just get a patch and name tapes representing your personal handle and the team. The U.S. Army and like services tape really shouldn't be worn unless you are a current member of that service.

<Unit Patches Rant>Who Cares!!!!</Unit Patches Rant>

If you want to do the full reinactiment uniform bit that should be ok as long as it is understood it should be correctly done, and that it really should never be worn any other place other than an airsoft field. It might be entertaining to go to costume part dressed as a priest, but to run around town dressed that way would be a misrepresention of yourself.

This is about being tasteful............
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Post by silentsoldier » Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:33 pm

A quick question here because I didn't see it completely defined already. Is it frowned upon to wear a rank insignia, such as a chevron for private on your uniform if you are not in th active military, and haven't been. (yet)

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Post by DFSM » Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:37 pm

Yes, unless you're doing an accurate re-enacting style uniform. And yes, it has been explained, many, many times.
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Post by ian » Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:14 pm

What are the general feelings about folks using the US flag while not being from the US in non-themed games?
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Post by CJ STALKER » Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:48 pm

my unk is in the army, and if i were to re-create he's uni and he gives me the patchs would it be right to wear it?

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Post by MCXL » Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:35 pm

Are you your, "Unk"? If not, then I think most would say no.
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Post by Chadwick » Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:18 pm

CJ STALKER wrote:my unk is in the army, and if i were to re-create he's uni and he gives me the patchs would it be right to wear it?
If you would take the time to actualy read the posts, than it would be obvious to you that the answer is no. Someone asked the same question earlier in the thread. what would make him any different from you?
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Post by THE ARCHANGEL » Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:31 am

Keep on topic gentlemen. If you want to discuss unrelated issues, take it to PM.
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Post by Downtown » Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:40 am

While I cannot speak for the MAA as an organization....If CJ's "UNCLE" is in the military, I personally do not have a problem with him wanting to show some love to him...

Where I have a problem (and I think the association) has a problem is when people go out and just buy patches that they have not earned. It is the same feelings I had when I say a guy in a bar wearing a SPFD Class B uniform shirt in a bar.

He obviously was not a SPFD member and is somethig he picked up at a second hand store. But he was telling everyone he was SPFD so I stepped in...

If you did not earn it, do not wear it.
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Tank
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Re: Question about Patches

Post by Tank » Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:26 pm

IMHO, if you served in the US Army you can were US Army name tapes as long as you want.

I was in the Navy and I have US Navy name tapes on a couple of sets of BDUs.
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