Is This the way Airsofters should deal with this?

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ty2610
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Is This the way Airsofters should deal with this?

Post by ty2610 » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:46 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFJwyjZ3d1k

For me, that was messed up. In the comments everyone was saying good job, how can people think it's acceptable to shoot another person while they have already called their hit?
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Re: Is This the way Airsofters should deal with this?

Post by Archer » Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:20 pm

If someone doesn't call hits, I will continue to shoot them till the hand goes up... even if I get hit by them in the process.. its how cheaters should be dealt with IMO.

I won't however get into a shouting match with them afterwards. and if they have an issue, they can take it to the ref whom I've already talked to by then.

I do think this guy went a bit overboard, but that was very blatant and if it was that clear from video, it would have been even more obvious in person, so I could see how someone could get very frustrated.
Last edited by Archer on Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is This the way Airsofters should deal with this?

Post by ty2610 » Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:40 pm

I'm glad to hear another angle to this, but I've never gotten so frustrated with a cheater that I keep shooting even after he called the hit. Ill light someone up until the call, but not after.
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Re: Is This the way Airsofters should deal with this?

Post by DeltaOP4 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:27 am

Thankfully never had that happen to me like that. For the most part my experiences have been positive ones. There has been a couple of time where there has been point blank encounters at big lake in the trenches where it was questionable as to who got who and both of us just smiled gave a high five and walked back to respawn. Those are the kind of people that make airsoft fun to play.

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Re: Is This the way Airsofters should deal with this?

Post by Bunny » Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:18 am

That's strait bullshit. I see no hard evidence of any of his so-called "hits" on video. A white streak going in the direction of the target does not mean that the BB actually hit, BBs do weird things, bounce easily, and can curve servery mid-flight. The stupidest thing in the whole video is that none of it even matters in terms of the game. Every single person he accuses of cheating calls their hits when he shoots at them a few more times. To me this is stronger evidence that the shots he thought were hits actually missed. Every single recorded BB that obviously hits the target, the person calls. Many of the others are questionable at best. Even then, a single hit in a CQB situation does not always get noticed, especially if it hits gear. Absolutely nothing in that video warrants his outbreak at the end.

The confrontation at the end is asinine. Sure, if you think someone is cheating, keep shooting them until they call it. That's cool. Continuing to shoot them after they've called it, even when they have their hand up to shield themselves from the hits, is inexcusable. Yelling at someone on the field is also NOT the job of the players, that's for the refs.

If I was reffing that game I would have kicked the player making the video off the field and told him to never come back. Airsoft is a game, and people who take themselves too seriously like this fuck should just not be playing it. They should go back to Call of Duty.

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Re: Is This the way Airsofters should deal with this?

Post by Trippy » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:42 pm

I'm fully with Bunny on this one (shocking). Many of those shots looked like they were hitting walls. The sequence at 01:10 looks like he's out of ammo. The cameraman is a douche bag.



I'm also reminded of why I never read youtube comments.
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Re: Is This the way Airsofters should deal with this?

Post by Terd Ferguson » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:04 pm

Bunny +1
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Re: Is This the way Airsofters should deal with this?

Post by J-Muss » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:06 pm

While reffing, I find it acceptable to continue shooting someone until they yell hit, raise their hand/dead rag, etc. But once that time has been reached and you continue to shoot that person, then we have a problem and I may escort you off the field. At the very least I'll be pulling you to the side and talking with you.

Number 1 rule when you think someone isn't calling their hits/cheating is contact a ref and let them deal with it. Granted this is a CQB game in the video at most fields your bb's are actually falling short or just plain missing. A ref can check on this for you. He was also firing semi only, and if only one bb hits someone than there is a very high chance they didn't feel... so shoot them 2-3 more times to be sure or until they yell hit.

Don't ever yell at another player, or do what he did in this video. It's poor sportsmanship and can often cause drama. People need to remember this is a game, leave your "ego" at home.
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Re: Is This the way Airsofters should deal with this?

Post by J-Muss » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:15 pm

On a side note, I wouldn't be entirely opposed to refs carrying pistols to "test" accused cheaters to see if they actually call their hits. If they call it, the ref informs them that they're still in the game... if they don't they're out. I would only use this in extreme cases, where not calling hits seems to be a huge issue that day as most games I've played/reffed have been just fine.
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Re: Is This the way Airsofters should deal with this?

Post by McClane » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:57 pm

Bunny wrote:That's strait bullshit. I see no hard evidence of any of his so-called "hits" on video. A white streak going in the direction of the target does not mean that the BB actually hit, BBs do weird things, bounce easily, and can curve servery mid-flight. The stupidest thing in the whole video is that none of it even matters in terms of the game. Every single person he accuses of cheating calls their hits when he shoots at them a few more times. To me this is stronger evidence that the shots he thought were hits actually missed. Every single recorded BB that obviously hits the target, the person calls. Many of the others are questionable at best. Even then, a single hit in a CQB situation does not always get noticed, especially if it hits gear. Absolutely nothing in that video warrants his outbreak at the end.

The confrontation at the end is asinine. Sure, if you think someone is cheating, keep shooting them until they call it. That's cool. Continuing to shoot them after they've called it, even when they have their hand up to shield themselves from the hits, is inexcusable. Yelling at someone on the field is also NOT the job of the players, that's for the refs.

If I was reffing that game I would have kicked the player making the video off the field and told him to never come back. Airsoft is a game, and people who take themselves too seriously like this fuck should just not be playing it. They should go back to Call of Duty.

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Re: Is This the way Airsofters should deal with this?

Post by Bunny » Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:57 am

J-Muss wrote:On a side note, I wouldn't be entirely opposed to refs carrying pistols to "test" accused cheaters to see if they actually call their hits.
The DMG guys who run the Breedland and Vigilance Ops at Apoc do exactly this, though they tend to just do it to everyone not just people they accuse of cheating.

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Re: Is This the way Airsofters should deal with this?

Post by THE ARCHANGEL » Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:28 am

My only issue with Ref Test Shootings is people get pissed, even if you inform players before hand. I would rather have a ref literally stand right on top of a suspected cheater and let that player know in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that they are being watched. Now, you can make the argument that when in that situation everyone plays fair and that refs cannot be everywhere....and that is true but once you cross that line, of shooting players....you've already started to lose control of your field.

Airsoft is a game of adrenaline and ego but people really have to watch their anger. Even if you are in the right if you fly off the handle and start screaming at a cheater....you look like a douche. Be professional, get to a ref, present evidence, and remove yourself from the situation.

I have always hated the "Keep shooting until they call it" or "I shoot them in the face/hands/uncovered spots until they call it" mentality. This is mostly because there's a sweet spot, a place where a player gets hit and then needs time to process it and call themselves out. This is a learned skill. You see veteran players make that call much faster than new players but everyone has a lag. If you can confirm a player is not calling their hits I would still go to a ref first (which means you may have to call yourself out and track that player down so you actually KNOW what they look like) before resorting to sustained firing. I'm not going to say I haven't done it, but it's a last resort.

I agree 100% with Bunny on his assessment of the video. Nothing more to say on that.
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Re: Is This the way Airsofters should deal with this?

Post by Bunny » Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:46 am

THE ARCHANGEL wrote:I have always hated the "Keep shooting until they call it" or "I shoot them in the face/hands/uncovered spots until they call it" mentality. This is mostly because there's a sweet spot, a place where a player gets hit and then needs time to process it and call themselves out.
Yah, and this is a difficult balance to find. Personally, when I fire a shot or shots that I think hit a player and they don't call themselves out my first reaction is to reevaluate why I thought I hit them and why I may have been wrong. Am I falling short? Am I hitting something in between us? Am I hitting his cover? Am I just narrowly missing? Usually I will keep firing a few more shots at them to see if I can score a hit, if that doesn't work I'll try moving to a new position with a better angle on the player or move closer. 90% of the time this works and the player calls themselves out. About 9% of the time I can't hit the person and can't effectively relocate somewhere so I'll just ignore them and move on to another target. If it was a moving target or I only got a fleeting shot at someone then whatever, maybe I hit them, maybe not, it can be very difficult when the adrenaline is pumping to notice a hit when you're running between cover or bounding on an objective. That's totally excusable, I know I've done it. Very, very, rarely will I be in a position to clearly see my BBs bouncing off the player and them not call it. I can count on one hand the number of times this has happened to me in nearly a decade of airsofting. If I clearly shoot them 10 - 15 times and they don't call themselves out that's when I'll find a ref and talk to them. By that point I have a very good idea what the player looks like and can easily describe the player and situation to a ref. If you don't have a good enough view of the player to be able to distinguish several identifying characteristics to report to a ref, I will have a hard time believing that you had a good enough view of the target to be able to confirm that you were actually hitting them.

The idea of shooting them in an uncovered or unprotected location until they call it is just ridiculous. To me it's like saying "I'm going to hurt them until they call their hits" and is paramount to walking up to someone you suspect of cheating and punching them. The intent is to cause physical harm to someone you suspect of breaking the rules, which is in itself breaking the rules. It's just dumb. You should never get so emotionally engaged in this hobby to want to physically injure someone.

I think everyone should have the experience of shooting tracer BBs at night. It's an eye-opening experience that shows just how little it takes to alter the trajectory of a BB. A lot of players are so certain they know exactly where their gun is shooting, and frequently they're dead wrong. Just because a BB was traveling straight at a player when you last saw it does not at all mean that it kept going in that direction and hit them. Humble up and give the other players the benefit of the doubt.

When it comes to taking responsibility for fighting cheating I agree with everything Gabe posted. Players should not confront other players, it's just too likely to turn into a bad situation that won't resolve anything. Work with the field owners, refs, and game operators. It's ultimately in their best interest to ensure that the games they run are as honest as possible, but you need to help them out. If you have a problem with a player let them know. If you have a problem with the way games are run or reffed, let them know. In the end if you choose to leave because nothing has been done, let them know. But never be a jerk about it. Be professional and courteous. Think if someone thought that you were cheating how you would like them to handle it.

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