Real Steel AR build help.

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Real Steel AR build help.

Post by cmezz331 » Mon May 02, 2011 10:15 am

This has been sometime I've wanted to do for a while now and I finally have the funds. I am getting a spikes stripped lower and am wondering what LPKs are good quality for the price a I'm not familiar with most of the manufacturers. Also should I buy the upper, barrel and BCG separately?
Basically I'm asking you real steelers for help on how I should go about doing this. Hoping to do it for under 700$.
Thanks everyone for your help!
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by forcefed » Mon May 02, 2011 10:31 am

Depending on the parts and stuff, it is easily done under $700. If you aren't looking for any kind of special trigger for the lower, then pretty much any LPK will do. DPMS, RRA, Del-ton just to name a few. The trigger is a wee bit nicer on the RRA parts kit. You can also deburr and polish the hammer and sear to make it break a little cleaner.

Do you have an armours wrench? Are you going to be putting the barrel on yourself? Are you going to order a complete upper? If you are just going to order the complete upper, order it with the BCG. If you are going to assemble your own upper then you can pick whatever BCG you want.
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by Fatal » Mon May 02, 2011 11:22 am

I'd get a BCM (Bravo Company USA) 16" Midlength upper and put some Magpul MOE handguards on it.
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by Tank » Mon May 02, 2011 11:41 am

If you're going to build the upper yourself...In addition to an Armorer's wrench you'll need the vise block for the upper receiver.

You can find pretty good deals on complete uppers (with or w/o BCG) and complete lowers. It may be worth while to buy the upper & lower as separate complete components to avoid the hassle of assembling yourself. They can be had for not much more than the total of the individual components. Especially once you add the cost of the tools needed (assuming you don't already have them).
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by cmezz331 » Mon May 02, 2011 3:01 pm

Well, my girlfriends dad builds guns, which is where I'm getting my lower from. So he does have the tools. Although I'd like to avoid putting it together myself
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by cmezz331 » Mon May 02, 2011 3:07 pm

Thanks everyone so far! Any brands I should avoid?
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by Tank » Mon May 02, 2011 3:11 pm

Avoid ArmaLite like the plague. There's a few other brands that are garbage but their names escape me right now.
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by Fatal » Mon May 02, 2011 3:24 pm

^Bushmaster = turds
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by forcefed » Mon May 02, 2011 3:30 pm

If you have access to the tools, it is a pretty easy rifle to assemble. All you really need is a leatherman and a hammer :lol:
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by cmezz331 » Mon May 02, 2011 10:42 pm

so my catalytic converter went..................... is there any way to do it under 400 (assuming i already have the lower, that is.)and still have it be worth doing? or will i just be getting sh!t....
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by Erik » Tue May 03, 2011 12:18 am

You can get a complete upper, including a BCG, from DPMS for around $400-$500. If you are on a budget I would go that route.

I have a DPMS A2 upper I'd sell for a fair price. It needs some rear sight hardware but is otherwise complete. No BCG.

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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by cmezz331 » Tue May 03, 2011 7:56 am

Okay cool.

And Erik is that the whole upper?( like barrel too?)
Or just the upper receiver?
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by Guges Mk3 » Tue May 03, 2011 8:23 am

I have a Troy Rear sight that I would let go cheap.
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by cmezz331 » Tue May 03, 2011 10:00 am

The a2 is that the handle upper?
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by Fatal » Tue May 03, 2011 10:31 am

Fixed carry handle; yes.
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by cmezz331 » Tue May 03, 2011 8:00 pm

Fatal wrote:Fixed carry handle; yes.
thanka!

And Erik, you have a pm sir
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by cmezz331 » Tue May 24, 2011 9:25 pm

is if wasnt already known, just thought id throw it out there that i am, in fact ALWAYS looking for parts. if you have some lying around and care to get rid of them, shoot me a pm.
Thanks!
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by cmezz331 » Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:56 am

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRESSURECTED.

i got a lower for christmas from my girlfriend:) so now im ACTUALLY looking for parts again
havent been on here in a while, MAN have i been busy.turns out i wasnt as ready for the "real world" as i thought :shock:
ANYWAY here she is. nothing special, but a good entry level lower i hope
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MAAAAA by cmezz331, on Flickr

so ive been looking at this for an upper...thoughts?
http://www.surplusammo.com/surplus-ammo ... 1-7-twist/

also, looking for parts again:)
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by Erik » Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:47 am

I took the upper I was thinking about selling and built a gun out of it, but there are plenty of other sources out there.

For the lower parts, I'd recommend Atomic Tactical, he's in Bloomington so you can do pickup vs. shipping.

You will need a lower parts kit (DPMS will get the job done cheapest), buffer tube, buffer, buffer spring, and castle nut. Atomic sells all of these.

Another vendor worth checking out is Element Arms in Becker. It's a bit of a drive, but worth the trip. One nice thing about Element is they can do installation of everything they sell. Talk to Pat or Dusty and tell them Erik from QSI sent you.

Online, Bravo Company, Palmetto State Armory, DelTon are all good sources for parts. However with shipping costs considered I usually just buy everything from Atomic.

For the upper, I think at the end of the day buying a complete upper is the way to go. DelTon is a good source for complete uppers at good prices.

If you want to build an upper, shop around for a Daniel Defense cut rifled barrel. They are available from places like Midway, Sportsman's Guide, and Brownell's. Excellent deals on these are out there.

For the bolt carrier group, if you buy a complete upper this may be included. If you buy it separately it's worth the extra money to get it from Bravo Company USA. However, if you get one with your upper it should suit you fine. I have DPMS, Rock River and Bravo Company bolt carriers running in my guns and they are work great. Bravo Company's worth the money because they have better build quality and quality control.

For tools - if you are building the lower, you need a good set of pin punches and a plastic hammer. You should also get some tape and felt so you can protect the lower from scratches during assembly. Brownell's and other companies sell some specialized tools for building ARs. You can live without them, but they do make assembly easier. With all the parts on hand, I was able to build my last gun in about 2 hours.
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by Fatal » Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:53 am

Bravocompanyusa right here.

Add one of their BCG's and you will not be disappointed. http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-M ... d-16lw.htm
Or any other of their complete uppers.
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by beasthunter33 » Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:56 pm

palmetto State Armory is the way I am going with my stripped lower.
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by SeawolfIV » Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:12 pm

Good call with PSA. They and Spikes Tactical are the lowest priced (and quality) parts that are still acceptable. Stay away from most of the "Big Namers" like RRA Del-Ton, etc.
BCM, Colt, DD, etc are the best.
And for LPK, don't even bother with anything but Geiselle if you're searching for a quality, crisp, clean trigger.
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by Erik » Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:56 pm

I still occasionally visit m4carbine.net but after getting several different peices of conflicting advice my trust in their knowledgebase is no longer intact.

Range reports from people who own "big name" guns like DPMS, DelTon, Bushmaster, Rock River are overwhelmingly positive. Gabe owns a Bushmaster and runs it very hard, and it's never failed, never jammed.

I'm not saying that there is no tier to quality, but I find most of the complaints to be unfounded.

Like any other mechanical device, you are going to find disputes among enthusiasts. Ford v. Chevy.
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by cmezz331 » Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:13 pm

i was goiing to say, ive heard great things about RRA....

anyway, i think im going to go for an spr "inspired" build, 18 or 20" barrel, spr brake,prs stock, partially railed handgaurd, etc

like this, but spr brake, and not in .308
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by SeawolfIV » Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:21 pm

With the manufacturers, it's not about their capacity to make nice parts, it's about the likelihood of getting a garbage part. RRA, Del-Ton, etc serves a different market than Colt, because most people seeking RRA/etc parts are looking for cheaper parts. Colt, etc can afford to spend more on a part, because their market is seeking quality parts.

Look at IraqGunz on m4carbine.net. He's an armorer in Iraq. To sum it up, he maintains 500 rifles. He knows the difference between quality and sub-prime parts, to say the least.

The likelihood of receiving non spec parts from RRA/etc is higher than Colt/etc; likelihood of receiving higher quality parts (HP/MPI, properly staked, etc) from RRA/etc is less than from Colt/etc.

Paraphrasing.

Some companies make some parts well, other parts poorly. Look up individual reviews for parts.
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by Moose » Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:34 am

+2 Bravo Company
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by cmezz331 » Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:42 am

so i came across this....worth it for my first build? i plan on upgrading everything when i have some money freed up
itll see maybe 300 rounds a year,,,,

http://www.dsarms.com/DSA-ZM4-A3-Upper- ... M4CBUPARK/
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by SeawolfIV » Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:00 am

http://palmettostatearmory.com/23929.php
bam
Comes with Charging handle and bolt. Your linked one doesn't. And for only $50 more.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/8923.php
or whole rifle

So, no, don't get the DSA Arms one. You'll spend enough on the bolt, charging handle, receiver, stock, and mag to warrant buying the Palmetto bare rifle.

By the way, don't spend the bulk of your cash on accessories. Make it reliable first. Either send it to a good smith or buy a good rifle.
EDIT* Meant $160...I was thinking the DSA was 250 and PSA was 300...lol, 2am posts
Last edited by SeawolfIV on Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by Erik » Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:07 pm

cmezz331 wrote:so i came across this....worth it for my first build? i plan on upgrading everything when i have some money freed up
That's $240. Add a BCM bolt carrier group for about $140 and a BCM Gunfighter Charging Handle for $45 and you will have a complete upper. Total = $380 + shipping

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCMGUNFI ... -s/123.htm

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Bolt ... o%20mp.htm

It's been said before, and there is no disagreement - the BCM stuff is worth it.

Or, go with the PSA upper $400 complete. Not a bad deal either.

Of course, BCM also sells uppers. Most of theirs do not include the bolt carrier group.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR-15-16 ... p-s/27.htm

I agree with Seawolf on this: don't worry about accessories. Get yourself a functioning rifle, and then "dress it up" down the line.

Building your own AR will not necessarily save you money; but you won't have to pay for it all at once, either.

Added benefit is you get exactly what you want, and the satisfaction of building it yourself.
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by SeawolfIV » Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:31 pm

BTW, I am in no way an expert...I just knew of these uppers when I was looking around on Black Friday ish...Also, I don't push Palmetto that much, I just researched them a lot, because I was considering getting their bare AR-15 (it's pretty good, especially for $600). But I'd take a BCM, Colt, etc any day over Palmetto.
Also look up info on the gas ports/general gas system of the upper you want. Having an over gassed rifle leads to parts that break more quickly, especially the bolt. Thought that takes around 10k rounds for most people.

Anyways, Honey Badger don't care
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by cmezz331 » Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:19 pm

dammit...now youve got me wanting a 300blk upper >:( lol
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by cmezz331 » Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:28 pm

gotcha.....yeah i gotta sell some stuff before i can buy an upper....but those were just some thoughts...so the bcm stuff is pretty good eh? ill have to look into it
and also, im not looking to buy a complete rifle because
A: i cant legally, (im 19) and
B: wheres the fun in that? hahaha
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by SeawolfIV » Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:11 pm

Why can't you buy a rifle if you're 19?
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by cmezz331 » Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:58 pm

Dat pistol grip
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by SeawolfIV » Sun Jan 01, 2012 1:43 am

http://californiarifles.com/
Wham-O! This may be legal. Check with your local police/expert/etc first, though.
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by Erik » Sun Jan 01, 2012 2:29 pm

SeawolfIV wrote:http://californiarifles.com/
Wham-O! This may be legal. Check with your local police/expert/etc first, though.
Won't work, because the Mn law applies to the "receiver or frame" of the weapon, regardless of stock configuration. You can buy rifles at 18 (just like any other long gun), as long as they are not on the "list."

https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/bca/bca-di ... 20List.pdf

HOWEVER:

The restriction is on "transfer" but not "possession." Therefore, assuming cmezzz is in lawful possession of the receiver, the point is moot.

Let's keep the discussion to the subject of the build.
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by cmezz331 » Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:20 pm

the lower was gifted to me......


anyway,
thoughts on 7.62x39?
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by Guges Mk3 » Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:34 pm

Harder to get parts for...but unique....like a Grendel
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by Tank » Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:19 pm

The 7.62x39 AR platforms are notoriously problematic. Lots of feeding issues.
If you want something other than 5.56 or .223 in an AR, then you'll want to go with something like the 300 blackout, 6.5, or maybe 6.8
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by SeawolfIV » Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:45 pm

Or how bout one in .410 or .50 Beowulf? That would be pretty neat to try, no matter how problematic the systems may be.
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by cmezz331 » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:53 am

ammo in the 5.45x39 is nearly half the cost as 223.. blackout is expensive as eff... lol Beowulf hell yeah
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by SeawolfIV » Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:25 pm

BTW, does BCM have "blemished uppers"? I know they have discounts for Blem Lowers. That could help with the build.
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by cmezz331 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:41 am

SeawolfIV wrote:BTW, does BCM have "blemished uppers"? I know they have discounts for Blem Lowers. That could help with the build.
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Upper-Re ... 20demo.htm

but then i gotta assemble eeverything myself :(
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by SeawolfIV » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:00 am

You may wanna check your whole list. If you need to buy a bolt, sights, barrel, gas system, comp/flash hider, etc, then it can add up.
Not saying that's a bad piece of equipment, but buying in a package generally saves money.
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by cmezz331 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:03 pm

i know... i dont want to assemble it myself.....hence all the completed uppers ive listed so far
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by cmezz331 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:18 am

almost positive im gonna go with this....5.45x39 AND piston driven :shock:
http://www.colemantyler.com/proddetail. ... 16-c-b-545
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by SeawolfIV » Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:42 am

I was looking at those for a while. Didn't see anything wrong with them except the price. I just can't justify spending the same price for an upper as a full rifle. But, you should be able to make your money back using surp ammo.

Also, what do you guys think about piston ARs?
I don't think they're necessary unless shooting full auto and/or suppressed, but well built ones would be nice for cleaning reduction IMO.
Last edited by SeawolfIV on Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by Erik » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:56 am

cmezz331 wrote:almost positive im gonna go with this....5.45x39 AND piston driven :shock:
http://www.colemantyler.com/proddetail. ... 16-c-b-545
Never heard of it.

I regularly correspond with hundreds of shooters and trainers who, in turn interact with hundreds of other trainers and shooters. The prevailing opinion I get from that is that the AR15 works best as a direct impingement system in 5.56mm. I am sure some folks will disagree.

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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by Guges Mk3 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:25 pm

I had a Piston AR - LWRC M6

The non-adjustable Piston of this model was sensitive to Cartridge Type...it has to be high pressure.

The adjustable ones are flexible.

I have an Alexander Arm Grendel Set-up with a 3 position piston.

I also have a DIGS TTR that I picked up for 1295.00, new and as a complete rifle.

The receiver of a piston AR is such a beautiful thing...its not very dirty!
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Re: Real Steel AR build help.

Post by cmezz331 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:55 am

yeah everything ive read says its a 3 position adjustable piston system....Guges, are you trying to sell any of those? :lol:

im really torn between .223 and 5.45x39
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