Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

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Post by Miker » Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:22 pm

http://www.airsplat.com/Items/AC-BT-11L1800-S.htm
I found this, and am wondering if anyone knows the difference (advantages/disadvantages) for say a Nicd or Nimh
It also seems weird b/c the cells are not 1.2v...

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Post by otherrandomhero » Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:28 pm

That's a lipo battery. Those should only be used in highly upgraded guns, since they produce a dangerously high ROF. However, that one battery will last as long as a 4000mah NiMH one will.

NiMH=higher capacity, can quick charge any time, no memory effects, auto discharge after a few days so no need to discharge it. Also more expensive.

NiCD=lower capacity, cheaper, hold charge for a long time, must be discharged by you, though.

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Post by JasumX » Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:35 pm

I highly reccomend not buying batteries from Airsplat. A friend of mine bought what was supposed to be a Sanyo NiCd in clear wrap when he was just starting out. He got a green wrapped NiCd battery with cells from an unknown manufacturer. Guges once pointed out (somewhere on these boards) if you can't see the cells in the battery pack, don't buy it. Or something like that :? The point is you'd never know if you're getting the ol bait and switch. Same as with the green gas... I buy from Skunksquatch and Olympus so that I know what I'm getting.

** Actually I think it was green cells (of unknown origin) in clear wrap... Either way we weren't pleased.

**** Heh, Guges' quote was actually in this same thread :?
GugesMk3 wrote:Two - Where did you buy it? A few battery sellers are doing the bait and switch for the uninformed consumer airsofters out there, is it in clear shrink wrap..if its not...how sure are you that you bought what you think you bought? Good pack makers NEVER use colored wrap!
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by WhiteFox77 » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:23 pm

One thing I'd like to tag on here. I can't really afford to carry 2 or 3 Intellect or GP batteries on the field with me. I have a good quality Intellect battery that I start the game with (only once has it died on me and that was an 8 hour session), and I carry a couple ebay $15 cheapos for backup. They do work, and they keep me in the game if my primary goes out. And they do it without spending a fortune on high quality "extra" batteries that in all likelihood I wont end up needing.

Cheap batteries are cheap for a reason, but in a pinch a cheap battery is better than no battery.
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by outdoorsman79 » Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:20 pm

Hi, I have a M16 style AEG and I was wondering. Where should I buy batteries from? I just need a good large battery pack for around $50. What do you reconnmend? sorry, I have no idea what to buy. http://www.airsoftpost.com/product_info ... s_id=24486
I was thinking something like that. What large battery do you reconnmend for around $50? Thanks. I am really new, and I want to get into airsoft, so I need a spare battery. I looked around and could not find anything that looked like quality until I found the one above.

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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Guges Mk3 » Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:57 pm

That is a pretty dated pack. 3600 are about 2 years old and the 4000+ are the standards now. Contact Skunk from the boards and see what he can make you from his inventory.

WhiteFox77-

Where are you buying IB packs...I used to sell them for about $25.00 and one IB pack was better then 2 cheap packs.
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by outdoorsman79 » Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:06 pm

Ok thank you. Where can I find skunk? I am a little confused, are you saying that he will make a battery for me? Thanks. I am sorry my questions are a little stupid, but I have no knowledge of this. Thanks again.

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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by K9Troop » Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:13 pm

outdoorsman79 wrote:Ok thank you. Where can I find skunk? I am a little confused, are you saying that he will make a battery for me? Thanks. I am sorry my questions are a little stupid, but I have no knowledge of this. Thanks again.
Your questions aren't stupid, your a new player and you're showing your maturity by wanting to be an informed consumer.

Skunk = Skunksquatch, the local airsoft goodie slinger. Send him a PM and ask about the availability of 8.4/9.6v IB 4200mah battery packs.
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by lord_coz » Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:03 pm

edit
Last edited by lord_coz on Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Guges Mk3 » Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:44 pm

For what chargers or battery cells.

For cell info...you can go to the respective makers websites and find the info on the cells.
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by lord_coz » Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:26 am

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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Viper » Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:51 am

lord_coz wrote:Is there any situation that would require the smaller battery? cant I use the bigger battery in most any gun?
There isn't a simple yes/no answer to that question. First, size matters: you can't necessarily get a 9.6v battery in a gun that was meant for an 8.4v. Second, the higher the voltage, the higher the rate of fire. While this might sound like a good thing, it puts more stress on the internals of the gun. Typically, using a 9.6v in a Tokyo Marui gun will decrease it's lifespan. For some people that's ok, because they want the higher rate of fire. It's a decision you have to make.

If you want the best bang for the buck, go with Intellect cells. They are pretty much the highest quality, and have the largest capacity, of any brand out there. They can be a little pricey, but you get your money's worth.
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Guges Mk3 » Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:14 pm

The lowest IR cells onthe market are the GP's...are you still using NICD's?

The intellects have become middle-upper in the road of good NIMH's for Airsoft. Elite are in teh same are, IB are very good. The trade off is thus. Highest mah on the market with the sacrifice of low IR. These would be:

Intellect - IB
Elite

Or get real low IR, but not have the highest mah in the market, these would be:

GP
KAN

We stopped using Sanyo and Panasonics in Airsoft 8 years ago. Sanyo and Panasonics are actually not used due to price point. They are more expensive then either of these other four batteries.

Also, if your an enthusiast...get the KAN or GP.

If your budget minded get the IB or Elites.
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Protagonist » Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:13 pm

i wnat to buy another mini battery for my gun and i have read all the posts and the origonal posts and i am not quite sure where the best place to get them are. does any body know a good place.
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Eh_Well » Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:18 pm

cheapbatterypacks.com Greatest website for batteries that there is.

(that I know of... Which in all honesty isn't saying that much)
Last edited by Eh_Well on Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Guges Mk3 » Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:19 pm

Or just contact Skunksquatch locally for all your battery needs.

Only problem with CPB is that they are not keeping all the best packs on hand anymore...they have gone the China only route and they are missing some great cells from Taiwan, Korea and Japan.

Also if you can afford it...get them from TNR Technical in California. Wholesale pricing...but you have to buy more then 10 packs.
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Protagonist » Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:42 pm

Eh_Well wrote:cheapbatterypacks.com Greatest website for batteries that there is.
this website doent list the echo 1 g36c which is what i have.
and i dont get the upgrade/connector thing can someone please explain that to me
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by doull76 » Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:30 pm

Echo1 G36C battery size is the exact same as the Tokyo Marui & Classic Army G36C or CA36C. Just choose one of those options.

Upgrade is how they put the battery together. CBP says not necessary for airsoft applications. I'll let someone else comment on that.

Connector is what type of connector you want on the battery. If you haven't changed the connector on your gun, you can just leave it at the default, small female tamiya - airsoft.

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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Protagonist » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:18 pm

i know you told me this already but just to make sure should i get the first option.
so but you cant be too sure.
this is the website.
http://www.cheapbatterypacks.com/main.a ... &model=141
i still have a mini type connector.
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by doull76 » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:21 pm

yup. That's the one. I really like those Elite 1500 cells. GP are better, but hard to find. And that female small tamiya - airsoft is the connector you want.

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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Protagonist » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:34 pm

thanks
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Protagonist » Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:11 am

i have two questions

i have purchase the Hitech IC Smart Charger.
does it over charge?
does it charge fully?
is it good?
are there any cons?

just making sure although it says it in the first post.
do all NICD battery's not have a memory?

thanks
anything helps
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Wolfwood » Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:55 am

Protagonist wrote:i have two questions

i have purchase the Hitech IC Smart Charger.
does it over charge?
does it charge fully?
is it good?
are there any cons?

just making sure although it says it in the first post.
do all NICD battery's not have a memory?

thanks
anything helps
Thats way more than 2 questions.

I don't know about the HiTech charger, but its probably fine. I always charge my batteries, wait for them to cool down, then charge them again.

And NiCDs have a memory. They are the worst at having a battery memory. They should be fully discharged after use. What guide are you reading?
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Protagonist » Sat Oct 18, 2008 11:24 am

Wolfwood wrote:And NiCDs have a memory. They are the worst at having a battery memory. They should be fully discharged after use. What guide are you reading?
ops i meant NiMD
sorry for the confusion
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Wolfwood » Sat Oct 18, 2008 12:58 pm

ah, yeah NiMH technically get a memory, but they typically have a high self-discharge rate which prevents it from happening. They're also easier to undo the memory on. So its not nearly the issue it was for NiCD.

If you want to know a ton about battery, the stick in general has a lot of good information

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10385

Here is what I said about bleed rate and memories
NiMH have a natural "bleed" rate that is usually somewhere between 3%-10% daily after a high initial loss in the first 24 hours. NiCDs bleed rate is in the sub 1% typically, after a loss of about 10% in the first 24 hours. Now this is under optimal conditions. If a battery has been damaged it can bleed much much faster. People accidently damage NiCDs often, so he may have observed a NiCD that had a high bleed rate. It also varies from cell to cell. I notice those KANs have a fairly low bleed rate, and have heard from people with the GPs that say that same thing. But I have had NiCDs keep a charge for over a year (oops!) so they typically are the king in that regard. I have one NiMH that loses almost 30% of its charge in one day!

The fact that NiMH have a bleed rate helps with the fact that they rarely develop a memory. A memory develops when a charge sits in a battery and causes the NI+3 to form into crystals, which are reluctant to break down. These crystals spend enough time to get too big, then you no longer have access to that charge.

Some sources for the discharge thing:
http://www.repairfaq.org/ELE/F_NiCd_Bat ... ATTERY_024

http://ibet.asttbc.org/batterys.htm (look under NiMH for "high self discharge")

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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by brendizzle » Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:24 pm

im about to buy a jg g3 so is it worth it to buy a 9.4v battery or just stick with 8.4. because i dont want my gears to get worn out to fast, the gun has to last at least a year unlike my last aeg which only lasted 1 summer
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by jsutton414 » Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:35 am

Ok, so I'm pretty new to this whole airsoft thing (LOVE the noob threads!) and was wondering if the 10.8v packs are overkill, even if you have like reinforced everything. From what I've seen so far on this thread (some of it's like 5 years old!), most of the batteries spoken of are 9.6v batteries, and I was wondering why. And also maybe give me the low down on Li-Poly batteries.

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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Swasin » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:43 am

In NIMH:

Sanyo 2600-3000mah in Sub-C
GP3300-3700-4300mah in Sub-C
Sanyo 1950mah in 4/5A
KAN 1050mah in 2/3A
GP1100 mah 2/3A
GP2000 mah in 4/5A
Intellect 1200/1400mah 2/3A
Intellect 3800/4200mah Sub-C
Intellect 1200/1400mah 2/3A...What about an Intellect 1600mah? Its the same price as the 1400mah.

http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.p ... ts_id=2918

http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.p ... ts_id=3596
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Bunny » Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:59 pm

The Intellect 1600mAH batteries are also very good - they just did not excist when that post was written :D

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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Guges Mk3 » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:22 pm

But, the best bang for the buck is Elite 1500....the IB1600 are a bit more restrictive in allow the power to flow over the Elite 1500

IB also has 2/3A in 1400. They are the CM Type, certified High Drain Capable and is better for Airsoft then the non-CM 1600mah types.
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Swasin » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:32 pm

Ok thanks Clark. And what are you saying Guges Mk3? To get Elite over Intellect, and 1400 mah over 1600 (Intellect)? The last part is what I dont get...the 2/3A CM type etc etc. Do you mean 1400 is better than the 1600? Thanks
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Bunny » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:50 pm

He's saying that he prefers the IB 1400mAH cells over the Intellect 1600mAH batteries, at least that's how I read that.

Don't go for the 1400mAH Intellect cells, for some reason they have a tendency to totally crap out on you after a number of charge cycles. I had two, and after about a year of use neither of them will hold a charge anymore.

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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Guges Mk3 » Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:50 am

IB 1400mah CM is Not the same as IB 1400mah Non-CM

They don't make a plain jane 1400mah any more.

They make a 1400mah CM and a 1600mah regular NIMH cell in 2/3A

If you do get a pack that has 1400mah cells in it, but are NOT labelled CM...then these are the OLD IB1400 cells.

Again...the CM IB 1400 is NOT a normal NIMH cell. It is a HIGH OUTPUT cell. Much like the IB SHO's for Sub-C cells.
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Swasin » Sat Jun 13, 2009 10:23 am

Ok so get a battery pack that does not say CM (and where would it say that)? Sorry but is IB and Intellect different brands? If so, Im buying from ASGI and there isnt any IB batteries.

JG 8.4v 1100mAh NiMH Mini Battery by JG
8.4volt Battery Packs
$18.00


PHX 8.4v 1800mAh NiCd Large battery pack
$20.00


PHX 8.4v 1200mAh NiMH Mini Battery PHX 8.4v 1200mAh NiMH Mini Battery by PHX
8.4volt Battery Packs
$20.00


UTG 8.4v 1100mAh NiMH Mini Battery
$21.00


Intellect 8.4v 1200mAh NiMH Mini Battery
$22.00

Intellect 8.4v 1600mah NiMH Mini Battery
$24.00


Intellect 8.4v 1400mAh NiMH Mini Battery
$24.00

Which battery out of those would you suggest? (or you can go to ASGI and look at the description if needed). It needs to be an 8.4v mini type battery (to go into my JG G36c). Sorry for being confused...if it would be easier, you can just recommend a battery to me on ASGI. Thanks
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Guges Mk3 » Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:05 pm

No, no, no...You WANT the CM cells for Airsoft use.

I wouldn't buy any pack from ASGI..they are mediocre at best, and the best are the last two you listed.
Last edited by Guges Mk3 on Sun Jun 14, 2009 2:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Swasin » Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:58 pm

http://ebaybanned.com/product_info.php? ... ts_id=1092

http://ebaybanned.com/product_info.php? ... ts_id=1093

http://www.airsplat.com/Items/AC-BT-84I1200-S.htm

Are any of those good? I would prefer to buy from ASGI because Im already ordering from there, but I have a friend that is ordering at airsplat. And Ebaybanned has free shipping. Where does it say if it is CM or not? Can you tell on the website description or picture?
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Guges Mk3 » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:45 pm

You get what you pay for...cheap, is cheap! And everything you are showing us is Cheap.

Are you even noticing what you are buying?

Look at the Airsplat Ad.

"IB 8.4 V 1100 mAH Ni-MH Small Battery"

The title says 1100mah, IB never made a 1100mah cell, ever!

Second the description says:

Small Intellect Battery 8.4 Volt 1200 mAH Nickel Metal-Hydride (NiMH) Cell Battery for MP5 A5/SD6, M4 A1 Carbine, M15 Carb, or Any Retractable Stock AEG

The last 1200mah IB ever made was over 5 years ago. Are they selling OLD inventory?

Personally, I would never buy something from someone with so little attention to detail and if they can't tell you what it is, like an IB1400 versus an IB1400CM...I would not buy it from them either for it most likely isn't what you want.

Its good that your asking us, but do you want quality or do you want cheap? Because in airsoft there is no such thing as High Quality and Cheap. If you want HQ then your not going to find it at these Cheap Airsoft sites. Now if you have a budget...but want a little bit of quality, get anything there that is the MOST expensive...i.e the Phoenix 1500 pack and not the 1100...

Overall, I would not be in such a hurry to buy something just to save $9.00 in shipping. Why save the $9.00, when the "cheap" item won't last very long and you end up having to buy a better item later and pay shipping. Your going to be out the initial $24.50 anyways...so why not wait and apply it to the better item in say a week or two.
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Swasin » Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:03 am

Ok thanks for the info and advice. What site has the Phoenix, though...or was that an example? What is a good site that has a good battery (or just what is a good battery)? I would like it to be cheap, but not if it IS cheap. I want quality then so it will last. When I have looked online, a lot of people say that Intellect is a really good brand for batteries, so thats what I thought. Yes I would rather have quality (but I dont want to spend $50 on a battery, unless it will last for a VERY long time). Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for all your time and help...I dont know much about batteries (like which ones are good), but Im learning.
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by uRizen » Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:37 am

I have become a fan of www.cheapbatterypacks.com. I ordered a 8.4v mini with Elite 1500mah cells from them a short while ago and was very pleased with the quality of the pack. I opted for the upgrade option which means hand soldered construction and they use a solid chunk of copper to connect both sides of the pack at the bottom. The end result is a low resistance pack that feels solid enough to brain someone with. It wasn't the cheapest option at $32 shipped, but from the quality of the pack I consider it money well spent. They also let you choose the gauge of wire (most of my other packs have 16awg wiring) and connector, I received the pack in less then a week.

Don't skimp on battery, I've tried in the past and ended up with less then stellar results. A good pack in a normal AEG should give you enough charge to play all day and then some and hold a good charge for quite a few seasons as long as it's cared for.
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Swasin » Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:26 pm

Ok thanks for the site.

http://www.cheapbatterypacks.com/main.a ... &model=823

Is that what I should order, and then get the Elite cells (7 cells)? Is the upgrade option really worth it? (and I picked R36c V3 because Im guessing that is G36c...they didnt have G36c on the list. Or is there a different one Im supposed to pick?). How long did your battery last? Thanks

*edit: oh and what kind of wire do I want? And the connector?

*edit: and is this a good smart charger?
http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.p ... ts_id=1224
Sorry for all of my questions and me being "uneducated" about airsoft batteries, I just dont want to make a bad decision on what I buy.
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Guges Mk3 » Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:21 pm

Yes get the Elite Cells...do not ever buy NICD's for Airsoft...they are dated and a waste of money.

Copper upgrade is not needed for the tabs

Get the thickest wire...14awg

That charger is okay, if your on a budget.

That battery will give about 4000 shots for a TM type of AEG. If your AEG shoots harder then 300fps, then take 10% off the shot count for roughly every 25fps over 300 your AEG shoots. So, if you have a 350fps AEG, you may get about ~3200 shots off this pack before it dies and needs to be recharged.

As for how long a battery lasts...that number is not set or definable, because it depends on how trigger happy you are. But, if your an AEG master and can take people out with one shot with every pull of the trigger, this pack will last well beyond your daily playing needs.
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Swasin » Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:52 pm

do not ever buy NICD's for Airsoft...they are dated and a waste of money.
Yes I always get Nimh's.

Yeah I wasnt going to get the upgrade because I read it and it said that for airsoft, it was not needed.

Yeah Im on a budget.

No, Im not a trigger happy guy...a few bursts at most. But I like semi-auto too, but I dont use it when it shouldnt be used. Do you have an estimate of years that the battery will last? Thats probably pretty hard to guess though since you dont know how much I play or will play. So that is a good battery to get? With the Elites, that is.
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by thetaco » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:56 pm

I have a Shuang BA 1100 mAh 7 cell battery for my sig 552. i lost my wall charger, and im looking to get a new one. im fine getting a dumb charger, i dont want anything super spendy. Also, i would like to avoid online purchases, though im willing to buy online. where should i go and what should i get?
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by doull76 » Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:12 am

The one Jin is selling in his thread, 'WTS: M500 Shotgun Accessories, Gear, Parts, Misc. ', is a popular one with the guys around here (ND). And at $12 plus shipping, a good deal too.

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Re:

Post by mau5 » Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:21 am

otherrandomhero wrote:That's a lipo battery. Those should only be used in highly upgraded guns, since they produce a dangerously high ROF. However, that one battery will last as long as a 4000mah NiMH one will.
Quoting 4 years after the original post... that's not too bad, is it? :mrgreen:
Anyways. You're saying that an 1800mah lipo will last as long as my Elite 4000mah NiMH? I'm confused.
Also, Guges, just to make sure I'm not confusing your wording... the lower the IR, the higher the C rating, right? I've been trying to read up on lipos and it seems like C rating is basically the maximum safe discharge (C rating multiplied by the mah, that is). So how will a high c-rating and high mah lipo compare to a low c-rating and low mah lipo? I don't get how discharge varies during use... I mean, I thought that the discharge is just whatever the voltage of the battery is. So why is there a "maximum safe discharge"?

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Re: Re:

Post by Guges Mk3 » Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:51 am

mau5 wrote:
otherrandomhero wrote:That's a lipo battery. Those should only be used in highly upgraded guns, since they produce a dangerously high ROF. However, that one battery will last as long as a 4000mah NiMH one will.
Quoting 4 years after the original post... that's not too bad, is it? :mrgreen:
Anyways. You're saying that an 1800mah lipo will last as long as my Elite 4000mah NiMH? I'm confused.
Also, Guges, just to make sure I'm not confusing your wording... the lower the IR, the higher the C rating, right? I've been trying to read up on lipos and it seems like C rating is basically the maximum safe discharge (C rating multiplied by the mah, that is). So how will a high c-rating and high mah lipo compare to a low c-rating and low mah lipo? I don't get how discharge varies during use... I mean, I thought that the discharge is just whatever the voltage of the battery is. So why is there a "maximum safe discharge"?
Capacity

I'm not saying that. A 1800mah LiPO will NEVER last as long as a 4000mah NIMH. mah is "Capacity". No where in the physical world does 1800 = 4000.

IR/C Rating
As a Rule of Thumb yes...,but not always true.

Think of the C Rating as the ability to suck water through a tube. Let say now you hook up your water supply to your fire truck. How much water can that truck draw from a hose the size of a Drink Straw? Versus the size of a real fire hose.

In relation, what kind of damage are you going to do trying to suck water through a straw versus a fire hose...it relates to batteries too.

If you draw more then the batery can supply, you create a short. A Short causes heat, heat causes melt downs, ruined battery and fires.

Read the link in the first post.

http://www.mpoweruk.com/performance.htm
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Re: Re:

Post by Bunny » Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:47 am

mau5 wrote:... the lower the IR, the higher the C rating, right?
There's an element you're missing here, there are two basic units of measure for any electrical system: charge and current.

Charge reflects the electrical potential between two terminals. For a battery charge, measured in Volts, will vary depending on remaining capacity. A typical 8.4V NiMH battery for example may put out over 9.5V fully charged, and will drop into the 7.5V range when "empty" (a battery should never drop below 1V per cell - which would be 7V for a typical 8.4V NiMH or NiCAD pack). A battery will always supply it's maximum capable Voltage, and cannot under any circumstances be discharged at a higher or lower voltage.

Current is measured in Amperes, or Amps for short, and this is the measure you're looking for when talking about load and discharge rate. The capacity of a battery is measured in mili-Amp hours, one Amp being equal to 1,000 mili-Amps. So if you took a 1,500 mAh pack and drained it with a load of 1 Amp (1,000 mA), the pack would be empty in one and a half hours (1,500 mAh / 1,000 mA = 1.5 h). C is a measure of discharge rate, where a rate of 1C is equal to the load required to drain a battery in one hour. So, for a 1,500 mAh battery a 1C load would be 1,500 mA, a 0.5C load would be 750 mA, and so forth.

C becomes important when talking about IR. Resistance varies with load - specifically the higher the current the higher the resistance. Resistance causes heat, and heat is the enemy of all batteries. Because of the way the chemical reaction inside a battery works, the hotter a battery gets the less electrical potential the battery has - in simpler terms as heat increases Voltage decreases. For this reason batteries with a high IR, when discharged at a high C load, will not last to their full mAh rating as the heat buildup will case premature Voltage drop. Airsoft motors tend to draw in the 3-5A range when running, so for a 1,500 mAh pack you'd be looking at a 2-3C discharge rate. At those discharge rates IR becomes quite important.

Also keep in mind that the above is for a continuous discharge, which is not the case generally for airsoft use. In airsoft our batteries tend to be discharged for a few seconds at a time, with periods of rest in between. These periods of rest are important, as they give the battery time to cool off. So, the more you can fire in short bursts the longer your battery will last.

Hopefully that clears up a few things.

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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by mau5 » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:31 pm

I think I'm starting to get it... but what exactly is discharge, then? Is it like the collective amount of energy released over a period of time? I guess I just don't really understand what's happening with the electricity and what the difference between discharge amount and voltage is. And I don't understand how the amount of energy sucked from a battery during use can change. Also, if 1c for a 1500mah battery is 1500ma, and .5c is 750ma, does that mean that .5c would go for two hours, 1c for one hour, and 2c for half an hour? Or am I not mathing right?

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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Bunny » Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:25 pm

A battery, in it's simplest form, is a device which uses a chemical reaction to create a buildup of electrons at one end by pulling them from the other. When a path is made between the two ends (an electrical circuit), the electrons will want to move from a spot where there are a lot of them (the positive terminal) to a spot where there are not very many (the negative terminal) until there are an equal number in both locations. The strength of an electrical charge is determined by the relative number of electrons at each location - the more electrons there are at the positive terminal and the fewer there are at the negative terminal the stronger the force of electrons trying to get from one to the other will be. This is voltage. This is why as you use a battery, and more electrons flow to the negative terminal, the Voltage slowly drops.

Voltage then is determined not by how much you draw from the battery, but only by the relative number of electrons at each terminal. Amperage is the unit used to measure draw strength, or current. It is the volume of electrons passing from one terminal to the other at any given time. The more current you draw, as in the higher the Amperage you pull from the battery, the more electrons are moving from the positive terminal to the negative terminal at once and the faster you drain your battery. Various loads, like a light bulb or electric motor, will draw from the battery as many electrons as they need to work. If the amount of electron flow that a load needs changes during use, the amount it draws from the battery will change as well.

Water is a good comparison for electricity. Think of a garden hose or kitchen sink. Voltage is just like water pressure - the amount of force the water comes out of the spigot at. Amperage is like water flow, the number of gallons that are coming out per second. If you fill one bucket with water and connect a pipe leading to an empty bucket, the water will want to flow from the full bucket to the empty one until there is an equal amount of water in each bucket. In this example the force of the water flowing from the bull bucket to the empty one is just like Voltage, and the amount of water your pipe is allowing to flow between them is just like Amperage. As the empty bucket fills with water, the force with which the water is flowing from the full one will slowly decrease.

The process of recharging your battery basically takes all the electrons that had moved over to the negative terminal and moves them back to the positive terminal.
mau5 wrote:Also, if 1c for a 1500mah battery is 1500ma, and .5c is 750ma, does that mean that .5c would go for two hours, 1c for one hour, and 2c for half an hour? Or am I not mathing right?
That's exactly right, you got it.

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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by mau5 » Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:16 am

okay, that makes a lot more sense. But if lipos are rated around 20c and 25c, isn't that kind of a crazy amount of amperage to be going into something? I was reading something and a guy said his r/c car was doing like 20c or something coming out of turns. Airsoft doesn't take nearly that much, does it? And what's the function of voltage going into a motor vs current? It seems like putting a greater current through a motor (more amperage) would cause it to turn faster, I don't see how putting that current in faster (more voltage) is what makes it turn faster. Or is it like, the motor will take a specific amount of amperage to function, but it's up to the voltage to decide how fast you're speeding that amperage through the wires? And if it is that way, wouldn't a higher voltage cause a greater current because there's more rushing out, or does the current kind of "stretch out" so there's still the same amount of electrons passing through a specific spot during a specific time, but they're going faster?

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