Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

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Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Guges Mk3 » Tue Dec 03, 2002 11:08 am

I submit to you a Battery FAQ/Info sheet. It is meant to inform airsofters from buying the wrong type of battery. And from getting ripped off by retailers that sell bad packs or packs that are hidden from what they really are:

Onlybatterypacks.com has been the biggest culprit!

http://www.airsoftplayers.com/forum/top ... ypacks.com

BATTERY INFO:

Okay there are many batteries on the market and these are the facts! I am sure you will find others saying something different (even Redwolf), but this is what is "true" and they are made true by the immutable Laws of Physics and Chemistry!

Volts are your AEG's power! Higher volts will allow the AEG to fire faster and give your motor the power to turn a heavier spring.

mAH - milli-Amp-Hours, is your run-time, the larger the mAH; the longer you can play on one battery. This is the only variable it affects in Airsoft. Higher mAH cells WILL NOT make your gun fire faster, though high mAH packs can fry wires if you have a short in your AEG.

Stock guns can take 8.4 volts or 9.6 volts batteries. The 9.6 volts will not explode your mechbox and others now can run 11.1V LiPO.

The hidden factor is Internal Resistance, the IR factor. IR factor is the batteries ability to "resist" a high discharge. Others refer to this as the capability to "dump" power on demand, this resistance is measured in mOhms. It is also referenced as Amps-draw and C.

Thus a battery that is considered high-output, have a very low IR, under 8mOhm's is considered low. And now Team Orion has a SubC that is bouncing around a level of 1.6 mOhms!

Most of the NICD cells, except the Sanyo 1700, 1900 and 2400mah Sub-C cells, as well as the KR series 1/2C cells in 1300mah and 2/3C 1700mah, are only AVERAGE in output capability, which means 9.5-17 mOhms in IR.

The newer GP3300/3700/4300/1100, IB 3700/4200, 1200/1400 and KAN 1050/1100, Elite 1500mah, Elite 3300/4000/5000 are down to 5mOhms,

NIMH - Nickel Metal Hydride


Not all NIMH are the same, though the volts may be similar, the discharge characteristics is what is important in Airsoft and not all NIMH cells discharge "power" in the same fashion.

Advantages:

No Memory effects
Large mAH Capacity

Disadvantages:

Spendy, about 20-35% more then a similar sized NICD pack.
Loses power while sitting on the shelf.

Tested and found to be unsuitable for Airsoft:

Gold Peak 2/3A 1000mAH NIMH cells they have horrible discharge characteristics. They cannot handle the draw required in most AEG's.

Sanyo NIMH (HR2700AUX) they only have 30% of the discharge capacity of the more popular KR1700AU. They can in theory run longer, but the ROF will be slower then a pack of similar KR1700AU cells. And the KR is rated as an "average" pack and it?s on the high end at that.

Nickel Cadmiums - NICD

Currently the two most commonly accepted cells to use are Sanyo's and Panasonics. Though the Panasonics offer up to 10% more mAH in similar sized cells they suffer about a 10% loss in the discharge characteristics department, so it kind of evens out in performance.

Advantages:

Cheap Cells
Many Sizes for various configurations.

Disadvantages:

Memory effects if not cycled properly.
Not all cells have high mAH.

So the key to finding good Airsoft batteries is Low Internal Resistance. Anything else is just secondary.

If a retailer can't tell you what that is...they are not an "experienced" Airsoft battery retailer, much less an experienced hobby enthusiast, since most of the motors and uses of Airsoft coming from the model hobby industry...

Industry Power graphs of various cells and discharge rates.

http://www.mpoweruk.com/performance.htm

Packs that are tested and are proven High Quality Airsoft Packs in NICD:

Sanyo 1700, 1900 and 2400 in sub-C large packs
Sanyo CP1300 and CP1700 are also very good.

In NIMH:

Sanyo 2600-3000mah in Sub-C
GP3300-3700-4300mah in Sub-C
Sanyo 1950mah in 4/5A
KAN 1050mah in 2/3A
Elite 1500mah
IB 1400 CM 2/3A - Do not confuse IB 1400 with IB1400 CM!
GP1100 mah 2/3A
GP2000 mah in 4/5A
Elite 2000 in 4/5A
Intellect SHO Class Sub-C
Team Orion - To die for!
Elite 3300/4000/5000

Anything else is just a waste of time, money and performance for NIMH.

CHARGERS:

As for chargers...know what you are getting again...cheap is not good. A $9.00 charger is not worth it, if it is the wrong charger or it takes over a day to charge your battery.

Get certified or hobby specific chargers.

For NIMH

TLP 4000 offers one of the cheapest "logic" chargers at $58.00. While the BC-725A is a very good "dumb" charger at ~$25.00.

For NICD

TLP 940E is a good NICD Certified "logic" Charger, while the BC-789 are good "dumb" Chargers.

Finding other chargers on the market that have similar performance specs for your needs is okay.

Don't buy chargers that are rated at 12 volts when you have a battery pack that is only 8.4v.

A lot of places are trying to make a fast buck on you by "bundling" a cheapy inappropriate 50 cent charger with your battery and making you think you saved $10.00. (In reality you didn't and you actually paid more for that battery...)

In the end "any" charger that supports 8 or more cells in NIMH with "logic" control is all you really need for Airsoft. Pirahna has a few models in the $50.00 range from Tower Hobby or your local hobby store.

SHRINK WRAP COLOR:

Opaque colored shrink wrap

A few retailers say this is what users request and this is why they wrap their packs in say BLACK or GREEN non-see through shrink wrap.

It's all baloney. They do this because they may be doing the ol'bait and switch on you. They sell one cell type in an ad and you are actually getting another type. All reputable and professional pack sellers sell their packs with translucent shrink wrap...this is usually clear. I will never buy a pack where I can not see the cells inside of it.

Onlybatterypacks.com has been the biggest culprit!

http://www.airsoftplayers.com/forum/top ... ypacks.com

I have to say that OBP has not recently been found to sell that are misrepresented. But, OBP has lost my trust since they did it in the past.

BATTERY CONFIGURATIONS:
Battery Configuration for 2/3A Cells

There is a lot of misinformation out there. Along with trying to sell an Airsofter a battery totally unsuitable for Airsoft use (high mAH packs with high Internal Resistance, you want high mAH packs with LOW Internal Resistance - IR)

The configurations are defined as thus:

1 - Mini

2 - 9.6v Mini

3 - Butterfly!

4 - Nunchaku, pronounced Noon-cha-koo, Not NUMB-Chuck...be respectful and learn the correct pronunciation.

5 - Block

:p And they have caught on very well...

But not the "Nun chuck", which is a 4x1(2) much like a Nunchaku pictured below.

Image

It was meant to turn a 9.6v into a stick battery. Only a few AEG's can actually use this.

The butterfly is a pack in a 2x2 (2) configuration...like a butterfly.

This is the most common pack that is INCORRRECTLY referred to as the "numbchuck"

The Block pack is obsolete for the redesigned 2/3A butterfly pack fits in P90's and AUGS as wells as M4's and other AEG's.

So there you have it in a nutshell.

++++++++++++++++Updated, 5-1/2012, copied from infected airsoft.++++++++++

Lithium-Polymer Batteries — Part 1

Airsoft is a world full of old technology and an industry of slow moving innovation. Look at the batteries we use. Up until recenlty, most AEG’s came with nothing more than a NiCad battery, and most only with an 8.4v. The discharge rate of the cells were poor, and you had to deal with poor quality Tamiya connectors, as well as thin and low quality wiring. It’s time to update the technology we use.

Let us address some myths regarding lipos:

Lipos WILL explode and are very dangerous to use
Lipos are too powerful for anything but a heavily upgraded airsoft gun.
Lipos require a lot of babying

Number One
Okay, so the first one isn’t really a myth, but hearing the horror stories some people tell, you’d think that lipos are prone to failure and then spawn gremlins who then tear up your garden, embroider your underwear, wet your bed, then swap your sports car with a Prius. Yes, lipos CAN (not will) explode if you push them out of spec. The same can be said about NiCad and NiMH batteries too! Granted, the later two don’t often fireball, they can spit out all kinds of nasties that will burn you and possibly catch fire in addition to spewing shrapnel upon failure. Keep your lipo within specs (easy to do), and you’ll nary have a problem!

Number Two
Number two has to be one of the most annoying things I hear about lipos. Everyone is afraid of the big bad lipo battery! Why do people think that a lipo will blow up your AEG? I just don’t get it. Let’s learn some math and understand why this is total nonsense!

First we must understand a thing called discharge rate. This is the rate at which current flows out of the battery. Manufacturers refer to this as the “C” rate of the battery. So if your battery specs say that you have an 11.1v 2200mAh 25C battery, then you know the discharge rate is 25C. Now what does that mean? Well, let’s convert that to something we can understand. To convert the “C” rate to amps (a measure of current), we just use this formula:

C Rate x Capacity (in amp hours) = Discharge Rate in Amps

So let’s look back at the battery we were just talking about. Using the formula we have 25C x 2.2Ah = 55A. Now hold up a minute and don’t freak out when you see that 55A rating. We’ll get to that in just a second. What you need to know is that 55amps is what that battery is CAPABLE of producing. Now let’s switch gears and see what that NiMH battery you have is capable of producing. Most NiMH cells used in Airsoft can discharge with a C rate of up to 12C. Hum…. see where I’m going don’t you? Keep reading. So let’s look at an average mini battery that might come with an AEG; say a 8.4v 1400mAh NiMH battery. Using the formula above we find that it is capable of discharging 16.8amps continuously. Wow, big difference.

Okay, enough of the math, what does that mean to you and your AEG? Every AEG needs a certain amount of current to run. This can vary from setup to setup due to different requirements of the motor and the load it has to drive as determined by the spring strength and gear ratios. Let us look at my M249 for an example. Drivetrain-wise, here are the specs:

Guarder High Speed Motor
Madbull M120 Spring
Standard Ratio Gears
8mm Bearings

Now this gun requires about 22A to drive it, and since it’s a PARA version, it only houses a mini battery. WAIT! Didn’t we just find out that the mini battery in the above example only can put out up to 16.8 amps!?!?!? That’s under powering the gun by about 23.6%! So what can we do to increase the performance given the tiny space we have to fit a battery? Well, we can put the battery someplace else and use a larger battery, but that might not be an option. Then we can increase the voltage from 8.4v to 9.6v. Well in this case, there is room to add the extra cell. Adding more voltage will increase the ROF and provide more power to the system but you might not have room for the extra cell either; there must be a better way. Enter Lithium-Polymer batteries; stage right. Lipo batteries are able to fit higher capacities and higher discharge rates into smaller packages than a traditional NiMH or NiCad battery. So let us revisit our space and current conundrum.

We need 22 amps of current to drive our system (AEG’s drivetrain) at 100%. So let us use a 7.4v 2200mAh 25C lipo battery. That has a discharge rate of 55A. Of course, the gun only needs 22A…. and as such WILL ONLY DRAW 22A. The gun can’t and will not use more current than it needs. It will however, try to pull as much as it needs. So when you’re putting that mini battery we talked about earlier in there, we’re over taxing the motor and the battery as the motor tries to draw the full 22A out of something that can’t supply it. With the lipo, we have only used 40% of it’s capability; thus not overtaxing any part of the system! Did you also notice we’re only using 7.4v to drive the system? Nice huh?

So let’s get back to myth number two that says we have to have a heavily upgraded gun to run a lipo. If you were to run a stock gun at 100%, and the stock internals are capable of handling the gun running at 100%, then using a lipo is no problem. Where you run into problems is systems that arn’t matched. You might have a heavy spring with a motor that can’t provide enough torque. Or maybe you have a low quality piston or gears in a high fps rig. Then you’re system isn’t matched (strength of the drivetrain to the load being driven), and regardless of what type of battery your run (3300mAh NiMH or a 2200mAh Lipo 25C), you’re just as likely to trash the piston or gears. DON’T BLAME THE LIPO!
We’ll get to myth 3 soon enough, but I want to give you a moment to chew on all of this information. Let’s see what we’ve learned.

First, as long as lipos are kept within the manufacturers specifications, they’ll run reliably for a long time. Just like NiMH or NiCad’s they’ll present you with a potential fireball of a hazard if you push them outside of the manufacturer specs.

Second, it’s not the lipo that can kill your gun, it’s unmatched components being driving at 100%. If the motor is running at 100%, but the gears are operating at 140% of their ability because of poor quality, then they’ll break. Same is true of the piston and anything else in the gearbox. With that line of thought, a 7.4v lipo is no more likely to break your gun than a large 9.6v NiMH or NiCad!

Well, chew on that for a while and we’ll get to myth three in the next part when we discuss maintaining, charging, storage and precautions for your lipo battery.

Lithium-Polymer Batteries — Part 2

In part one we took a look at how li-poly batteries are really no more dangerous than NiMH, or NiCad batteries. We also took a deep hard look at the myth that li-poly batteries kill airsoft guns… and found it to be a farce! If you missed part one you can find it here.

Enough of the past, let us venture on into the future where before us lies the land of li-poly happiness and reliability! Wait, did I just use li-poly and reliability in the same sentence? You bet your granny’s muffins I did. We’ve already proved that you have to abuse them to create that great big ball of fire that will not only kill your battery, but swap your two ply toilet paper for single ply! Now you’re asking, since they’re reliable and my toilet paper is safe, how do I take care of li-poly batteries? Thought you’d never ask.

First let’s go over the general construction of a Li-Poly pack. There’s really not much to understand here other than, like NiCad and NiMH batteries, it’s a group of cells wired / soldered together. As usual, you have a power connector, but unlike the other battery chemistries, you also have a balancing connector. The power connector shown in the picture here is a Deans connector. I prefer Deans connections over the stock Tamiya connectors, but that’s another article for another day. For now, just remember along side the power connector is also a balancing connector. More on that later.

Myth 3 states:

Lipos require a lot of babying

Well, here’s the cold hard truth. They don’t. They do require a bit more effort to maximize your output and use, but the rewards of using a li-poly far out weigh the slight bit of extra work. Let’s break it down into the main parts of battery maintenance.
Precautions

Really, there’s nothing new here. Just like NiMH or NiCad batteries, don’t drop them, puncture them, set them on fire, stick them in a fire, overheat them, or wear on your forehead and play William Tell with a Barret 82A1 rifle. One more thing, don’t leave a battery of any type charged without someone present.
Charging

Charging a li-poly battery does require a charger that… well, can charge li-poly batterie. These are not as common as your NiMH or NiCad chargers, but there is an increasing number of them. What you pick is up to you. They sell some as cheap as $35 that are li-poly specific at HK airsoft stores, up to $130 chargers that can handle any battery type. As far as chargers go, you really get what you pay for. Having a charger that is able to tell exactly what the battery is doing every moment while charging, and adjust accordingly is a real benefit not only for li-poly batteries, but all battery types. I personally use a Triton2 made by Electrifly. This is a pricey unit but will handle any battery I could currently need for airsoft, and it has 10 memory settings. But, that’s another review, so we’ll keep moving forward.

One optional, but highly recommended bit of equipment is a Balancer. That sounds like a fancy piece of kit, but in reality it’s very simple, and pretty cheap (about $30 for the one I picked up and I’m sure there are cheaper ones). A balancer (the little box on the right in the picture) makes sure all the individual cells that make up your battery pack are all charged to the same level. This is important as you’ll find out later in this article. Balancers work by taking voltage from one cell, and moving it to another till they are at the same charge level. Easy. For the most part, you just plug in the balancer to the battery, press one button and presto after a few minutes your pack is balanced and ready for charging.

Another piece of equipment you need is a Liposack of some sort. This is just a precaution. If your lipo has been damaged, and you are unaware and are trying to charge it, there is a chance it could ignite (just like any damaged battery). Because lipos do ignite violently, the use of one of these bags is recommended. Just place your lipo in the bag with the wires hanging out. Hook it up to your charger, and charge. If the battery were to fail, the bag would contain the fire for the most part, and vent out the excessive gas. Again, the likelihood of this is pretty low, but better to be safe.

As far as charging goes, it will depend on your charger. Mine just asks for the capacity of the battery and the voltage. Once I put those two numbers in, off it goes charging my battery. With the Triton 2, my 2200mAh battery charges in about 1 hour.
Balancing

Some balancers work through the charger. I use the Equinox balancer. This one can be used with or without the charger. The beauty of this is that it keeps the pack balanced while charging.

Now I said I would get back to the balancer and why you should balance your packs. Here’s the deal. Li-poly cells have a lower discharge limit of 3v for most manufacturers. If you go below this, there is the potential to damage your battery and prevent it from ever charging again. Let us look at an example.

Say you have a 2 cell pack. That’s 7.4v total power. Say cell one has 3.5v in it, and cell two has 3.1v. What happens is that you can still run your pack, but cell two will dip below the 3v minimum, and could be permanently damaged. If you balance the pack before you use it, or before you charge it, you’d end up with two cells that are each at 3.3v. They will hit the 3v minimum at the same time. This maximizes the capacity you can get out of your pack by running all the cells down at the same time instead of having to stop playing to charge backup because one cell is too low.

This all sounds complicated, but I’ll wrap it up in a neat package for you at the end.
Low voltage Protection

Remember what I said before about the fact that li-poly batteries need to be kept above 3v? If you’re using a li-poly on a gun with heavy demands or for multiple days, I suggest checking the voltage on it periodically. This is easy to do with a multi-meter. Just use the balance tap to check the voltages. If you want to make it even simpler, there are devices you can plug into the battery that will use led’s to show you the charge of each cell, and warn you if you’re getting close to the low end. There are even units that will beep/buzz so that you have an audible cue if your battery starts to reach the bottom of the barrel and needs charging. So no worries there if you don’t have a multi-meter or don’t know how to properly use one.
Storage

Storing a li-poly is pretty straight forward. You can keep them all in a liposack for protection, but the concern here is that if one pack goes, all your packs go. I’ve heard of people purchasing nomex socks and using them instead of a liposack, but a pair of nomex socks seem to cost just as much as a liposack. My suggestion is to use a separate liposack for each battery and put them in a metal ammo tin. Of course, if you’re willing to risk it, you could just store them in one liposack and toss that in an ammo tin. Just weigh your cost vs. potential losses.
Summary

Okay, so let’s sum up what you’ve got to do with a li-poly battery to make it usable and use it.

Charge It — Do this with a balancer if you have one. Some chargers might have a balancer built in and you wouldn’t need to worry about a balancer. Some balancers need to be used in a separate step.
Balance your battery
Put it in your AEG and abuse your enemies!
Store it for use later.

If you stick to that, and keep that voltage above 3v per cell (easier than it sounds), then you’ll have a battery that will far outlast your competition… unless of course they read my articles too!

Stay tuned to part 3 where we talk about where you should and should not purchase your li-poly’s from, how to pick out a li-poly pack, and summerize the pro’s and con’s of using a li-poly pack. If you’re good, I’ll even put together pricing for a entry and a high end lipo pack as well as a “starter” kit.

Lithium-Polymer Batteries — Part 2

In part one we took a look at how li-poly batteries are really no more dangerous than NiMH, or NiCad batteries. We also took a deep hard look at the myth that li-poly batteries kill airsoft guns… and found it to be a farce! If you missed part one you can find it here.

Enough of the past, let us venture on into the future where before us lies the land of li-poly happiness and reliability! Wait, did I just use li-poly and reliability in the same sentence? You bet your granny’s muffins I did. We’ve already proved that you have to abuse them to create that great big ball of fire that will not only kill your battery, but swap your two ply toilet paper for single ply! Now you’re asking, since they’re reliable and my toilet paper is safe, how do I take care of li-poly batteries? Thought you’d never ask.

First let’s go over the general construction of a Li-Poly pack. There’s really not much to understand here other than, like NiCad and NiMH batteries, it’s a group of cells wired / soldered together. As usual, you have a power connector, but unlike the other battery chemistries, you also have a balancing connector. The power connector shown in the picture here is a Deans connector. I prefer Deans connections over the stock Tamiya connectors, but that’s another article for another day. For now, just remember along side the power connector is also a balancing connector. More on that later.

Myth 3 states:

Lipos require a lot of babying

Well, here’s the cold hard truth. They don’t. They do require a bit more effort to maximize your output and use, but the rewards of using a li-poly far out weigh the slight bit of extra work. Let’s break it down into the main parts of battery maintenance.
Precautions

Really, there’s nothing new here. Just like NiMH or NiCad batteries, don’t drop them, puncture them, set them on fire, stick them in a fire, overheat them, or wear on your forehead and play William Tell with a Barret 82A1 rifle. One more thing, don’t leave a battery of any type charged without someone present.
Charging

Charging a li-poly battery does require a charger that… well, can charge li-poly batterie. These are not as common as your NiMH or NiCad chargers, but there is an increasing number of them. What you pick is up to you. They sell some as cheap as $35 that are li-poly specific at HK airsoft stores, up to $130 chargers that can handle any battery type. As far as chargers go, you really get what you pay for. Having a charger that is able to tell exactly what the battery is doing every moment while charging, and adjust accordingly is a real benefit not only for li-poly batteries, but all battery types. I personally use a Triton2 made by Electrifly. This is a pricey unit but will handle any battery I could currently need for airsoft, and it has 10 memory settings. But, that’s another review, so we’ll keep moving forward.

One optional, but highly recommended bit of equipment is a Balancer. That sounds like a fancy piece of kit, but in reality it’s very simple, and pretty cheap (about $30 for the one I picked up and I’m sure there are cheaper ones). A balancer (the little box on the right in the picture) makes sure all the individual cells that make up your battery pack are all charged to the same level. This is important as you’ll find out later in this article. Balancers work by taking voltage from one cell, and moving it to another till they are at the same charge level. Easy. For the most part, you just plug in the balancer to the battery, press one button and presto after a few minutes your pack is balanced and ready for charging.

Another piece of equipment you need is a Liposack of some sort. This is just a precaution. If your lipo has been damaged, and you are unaware and are trying to charge it, there is a chance it could ignite (just like any damaged battery). Because lipos do ignite violently, the use of one of these bags is recommended. Just place your lipo in the bag with the wires hanging out. Hook it up to your charger, and charge. If the battery were to fail, the bag would contain the fire for the most part, and vent out the excessive gas. Again, the likelihood of this is pretty low, but better to be safe.

As far as charging goes, it will depend on your charger. Mine just asks for the capacity of the battery and the voltage. Once I put those two numbers in, off it goes charging my battery. With the Triton 2, my 2200mAh battery charges in about 1 hour.
Balancing

Some balancers work through the charger. I use the Equinox balancer. This one can be used with or without the charger. The beauty of this is that it keeps the pack balanced while charging.

Now I said I would get back to the balancer and why you should balance your packs. Here’s the deal. Li-poly cells have a lower discharge limit of 3v for most manufacturers. If you go below this, there is the potential to damage your battery and prevent it from ever charging again. Let us look at an example.

Say you have a 2 cell pack. That’s 7.4v total power. Say cell one has 3.5v in it, and cell two has 3.1v. What happens is that you can still run your pack, but cell two will dip below the 3v minimum, and could be permanently damaged. If you balance the pack before you use it, or before you charge it, you’d end up with two cells that are each at 3.3v. They will hit the 3v minimum at the same time. This maximizes the capacity you can get out of your pack by running all the cells down at the same time instead of having to stop playing to charge backup because one cell is too low.

This all sounds complicated, but I’ll wrap it up in a neat package for you at the end.
Low voltage Protection

Remember what I said before about the fact that li-poly batteries need to be kept above 3v? If you’re using a li-poly on a gun with heavy demands or for multiple days, I suggest checking the voltage on it periodically. This is easy to do with a multi-meter. Just use the balance tap to check the voltages. If you want to make it even simpler, there are devices you can plug into the battery that will use led’s to show you the charge of each cell, and warn you if you’re getting close to the low end. There are even units that will beep/buzz so that you have an audible cue if your battery starts to reach the bottom of the barrel and needs charging. So no worries there if you don’t have a multi-meter or don’t know how to properly use one.
Storage

Storing a li-poly is pretty straight forward. You can keep them all in a liposack for protection, but the concern here is that if one pack goes, all your packs go. I’ve heard of people purchasing nomex socks and using them instead of a liposack, but a pair of nomex socks seem to cost just as much as a liposack. My suggestion is to use a separate liposack for each battery and put them in a metal ammo tin. Of course, if you’re willing to risk it, you could just store them in one liposack and toss that in an ammo tin. Just weigh your cost vs. potential losses.
Summary

Okay, so let’s sum up what you’ve got to do with a li-poly battery to make it usable and use it.

Charge It — Do this with a balancer if you have one. Some chargers might have a balancer built in and you wouldn’t need to worry about a balancer. Some balancers need to be used in a separate step.
Balance your battery
Put it in your AEG and abuse your enemies!
Store it for use later.

If you stick to that, and keep that voltage above 3v per cell (easier than it sounds), then you’ll have a battery that will far outlast your competition… unless of course they read my articles too!

Stay tuned to part 3 where we talk about where you should and should not purchase your li-poly’s from, how to pick out a li-poly pack, and summerize the pro’s and con’s of using a li-poly pack. If you’re good, I’ll even put together pricing for a entry and a high end lipo pack as well as a “starter” kit.

+++++++++++++= Link+++++++++++++
http://infectedairsoft.wordpress.com/te ... es-part-1/
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Last edited by Guges Mk3 on Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:59 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Revelation » Mon May 17, 2004 9:05 pm

I got the KAN 1050 MAH 8.4 MINI and it was nice while it lasted, after a couple of uses i found it leaking. I was using a 600MAH 8.4 charger so i doubt that was the problem cause i checked my charging times. I just bought 2 PTI 1100MAH v8.4 from batteriesplus store and i havent had any problems. KAN doesnt make good cells. Btw, it happened on my friends AEG also!
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Guges Mk3 » Mon May 17, 2004 9:38 pm

Before you start saying KAN are bad cells. I have to know your battery experience.

How did they start leaking? Was it out of the box after a charge? All leaky packs are inspected for misuse and improper charging. Thus if they are deemed defective...they are replaced by the distributor.

And those 1100mah don't have high discharge rates. They are mediocre batteries and are only useable for stock guns.

So...what type of charger did you charge it with and at what voltage and mah?

<small>[ May 17, 2004, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: Guges Mk3 ]</small>
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Revelation » Mon May 17, 2004 10:00 pm

I already stated my charger. My friend was using a similar one. Im not happy with KAN cells.
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Wolfwood » Fri May 21, 2004 10:11 pm

Your KAN is a NIMH. You stated that your charger is only 600mah charger. That prolly means its one of those wall chargers. In any case, you really should "fast charge" NIMH. I dunno if this is why the cells started leaking, but it is not the right charger for the job

I run almost exclusivly KAN batteries and i love em. I think they are excellent cells. Get a good charger, the cheapo 15 dollar ones will not cut it. Invest in a good quick charger.

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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Wolfwood » Tue May 25, 2004 7:03 pm

Yeah, that should be a fine charger for yah. You want to fast charge NIMH, so you may need to do it for longer than 15 minutes. You need to look at the charge rate of the charger, the capacity of the battery to determine how long to charge it. You also have to monitor the temperature of the battery while it is charging, if it gets too warm, you gotta pull it. If this sounds difficult, get the 88 dollar logic one, That will pretty much ensure a good charge every time. In my opinion its well worth the 22 dollars. I have crapped batteries using poor charging techniques, and I am 99.99% sure thats what Revelation did with one of those cheap-ass wall chargers. The 66 dollar charger will work, but the 88 dollar one is MUCH better
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Revelation » Mon Jul 26, 2004 11:21 pm

I purchused a Sanyo 1100MAH NINH 8.4v and compared to my KANs, these rock. I prefer this over KANs any day. Good buy!
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Guges Mk3 » Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:48 am

Rev...I have to debunk you...your information is vague and unsubstantiated!

One - Sanyo does not list a 1100mah 2/3A cell on their site...can you post a picture or a model number of the cell?

Two - Where did you buy it? A few battery sellers are doing the bait and switch for the uninformed consumer airsofters out there, is it in clear shrink wrap..if its not...how sure are you that you bought what you think you bought? Good pack makers NEVER use colored wrap!

Three - You never said the charger type or model...for all we know...you melted the KAN pack. The history of KAN peformance is really against you. They have been on the market for over 2 years and they are in high demand...not only in Airsoft.

Coming onto the board and saying KAN sux and my friend says so too, is NOT helpful and very unscientific and is ALL Hearsay!

If you want to say something is bad...you have to prove it with facts!

And now..has anyone tried the GP1100's???

I have, KAN is no longer the best! 3mOhm's!
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Revelation » Fri Jul 30, 2004 7:06 pm

Well this is my opinion, its your choice to follow it or not.

Looking more carfully, the cells are called "PTI 1100"

This was purchused from a friend who carried other airsoft batterys. Its in black wrap with the ends in clear tape. I never had a problems with these and battery life rocks.

My KAN cells preformed like crap, compared to this "PTI". I used a standered fast charger by the directions with my kan's. Actually one of them leaked while using! I still go by belief that i wont be purchusing KAN cells again. These are working out great for me.
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Macgyver » Mon Aug 30, 2004 11:58 am

Ok, I'm reading this now, and I'm starting to understand it now. Sorry I said it was confusing in a different post, Guges MK3. I guess I just had to read it over again.

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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Guges Mk3 » Mon Aug 30, 2004 4:29 pm

PTI - Never heard of them do you have any links? Are they the dark green packs you see on eBay which can only handle "15 amps"-while KAN can handle 20amps-

All in all your the only case where KAN cells have failed. Another case happened, but that was to incorrect charging...so until you substantiate your claims and is in fact your lone opinion...KAN's reputation still stands as a very good battery.

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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Mukappa56 » Tue Aug 31, 2004 2:45 am

Great post Guges MK3, I printed your original thread for future use, Thanks for the good info!
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Blackcat » Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:16 am

I'm about to order some batteries, and I need some input. I was very close to buying them, but I did some more research on this site, especially this post, and now I'm doubting what I wanted to buy before.

I don't know how to find out what cells or the IR on these batteries is. If you can help, the sooner the better. Thanks!


Here is the general link:
Battery Space Airsoft Batteries

Here is the 8.4 NiMH's I want (2 pack)
8.4 mini's

And the 9.6 NiMH's that I want (also 2 pack)
9.6's

The prices are really nuts, so I almost jumped on the opportunity.
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Guges Mk3 » Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:39 am

You mean these???

High quality NiMH battery pack of 8.4V, 1100 mAh, made of 2/3A x 7 matched cells in two flat rows.
20+ minutes Continuous Firing at 2.4amp discharge rate.
Can be drianed up to 10 amp.
Dimession: 10.6 x 3.4 x 1.7cm.
Rapidly charge up and long cycle life.
Popular Mini Tamiya connector fits with most of the AirSoft electric guns.

---cheap packs...no good. Probably more of those "PTI" cells.

One the wrap is colored...can't tell what you are buying.

Two - 2.4 amp draw....bad! AEG's draw ~10-12 amps when firing, the pack max is 10...so your not getting the best flow of power from these packs.

If you need packs let me know.
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Blackcat » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:12 am

PM box was full, I sent you an email.

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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Wolfwood » Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:41 pm

I always get my batteries from Guges, really a one-stop shop in that regard.
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Blackcat » Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:38 pm

I have a few questions about certain cells. If anyone can help, please do. Otherwise, guges, share your knowledge.

Here are the cells:
CBP 1150 2/3A
NIMH
and
Gold Peak 1100 2/3A
NIMH

The site claims the CBP is same quality as KAN 1050, only cheaper.

Here is the site: Batteries
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Wolfwood » Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:56 pm

I believe the GP 1100s you got listed there were the ones Guges was reccomending before as the best new cell, but he'll have to answer that.

Basically for AEGs the higher drain load its rated for the better. I can pop 15A fuses on my stock guns without much trouble, and if you have a higher AMp rating you are less likely to lose your cells due to a crappy charger. Upgraded guns typically have a higher drain.
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Guges Mk3 » Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:18 pm

Okay I looked at their site...and I don't trust them.

Its pure hearsay that they are good cells. I have no reason to doubt them, but then I have no reason to believe them either.

For the KAN and GP cells I can actually go to the mfg. website and get the specs. I can't find anythng for CBP.

But, I know for sure the KAN and GP1100 cells are the far superior cells...if you can provide me with the CBP website...I can give them a look over...
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Re: Batteries and Chargers - Being an informed consumer.

Post by Blackcat » Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:37 pm

Thanks guges... I will be buying them for some other people, cuz they really like those batteries. I had one, it was great until my charger blew up and took my battery with it.

Email on the way, guges.
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question???????

Post by 50cal.master » Tue May 31, 2005 10:30 am

I just bought some batteries from G & P and i am wondering if the battery comes fully charged or not at all. thanks

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Post by Guges Mk3 » Tue May 31, 2005 11:56 am

No rechargeable battery ever comes charged....and the G&P ones are "Not" the same as GP.
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Post by Red Cell » Thu Aug 25, 2005 5:31 pm

CBP is http://www.cheapbatterypacks.com

they do stuff for RC and Airsoft.. They never really specify what cells they are using..
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Post by WildgOphers » Sun Aug 28, 2005 11:51 pm

quick queston,

Just got a stock for my g3sas for bigger batteries (duh)
What can i fit in there and what would you recommend?
Really all this battery stuff goes way over my head even though my dad works for excel

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Post by Guges Mk3 » Mon Aug 29, 2005 7:14 am

A 9.6v would fit with minor modding. Sub-C....
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Post by WildgOphers » Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:45 am

So i could put a 9.6 in?
How much MaH?

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Post by Guges Mk3 » Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:37 pm

As much as you want 3700+...why do you think mah is going to mess up your AEG?

Volts = Working Power
mah = storage capacity
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Post by WildgOphers » Mon Aug 29, 2005 2:38 pm

Nah, i just wanted to know what would fit and what wouldn't.
I don't want to buy a battery and go, "Crap! its to F#@king big!"
And I have this (mis?)conception that the larger the mah the larger the battery, right?

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Post by Wolfwood » Mon Aug 29, 2005 2:49 pm

Well, not really. Your fitting whats called a "Sub-C" battery. Sub-c is a general classification. Sometimes the larger mAH batteries are a bit fatter, but its not something that would prevent you from fitting it. If it is, a bit of sandpaper will usually fix the problem.
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Post by Guges Mk3 » Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:24 pm

Also..some people were confused by the battery type in 2/3A so here is a picture.

Image

One on the left is the "Nunchuck" pack, good for grip mounted battery compartment AEG's, some AK stick type AEG's and anything with a solid stock.

No such thing as a Double Nunchuck as a weapon, and long ago the middle pack was classified as a "Butteryfly" by the old-timers, but is commonly found as "Double nunchuck"...

The Middle pack is a good option 9.6V pack for AUG's, P90'S and Forgrip mounted battery packs, along with solid stocks.

The right one is a common 9.6V mini pack. Not all AEG's can sport this configuration, the "Butterfly" is far more flexible in transfering from AEG to AEG without having to buy new packs...followed by the "NunChuck" type packs.

Now for the Elite packs....Cheapbatterypacks.Com has them listed as a very good cell, its suppose to be even better then a IB1400.

I put a mini-pack on my charger, and with 1000mah added in, the output voltage was only showing to be 8.43V, do I have a dead cell? Since I have clear wrap (hint, hint) a visual inspection turned up nothing of concern. I will put on another one to test...

As for the IB1400 with 500mah put in for a charge, it was showing output voltage of 9.88V for a 7 cell pack.

Putting both packs on a Star FNC, 390fps with .20.

The Elite delivered labored 8rps shots, while the IB pack delievered ~12rps.

And after charging a second pack, there was indeed a dead cell in my first test pack. With 1000mah already in the pack, the output voltage is showing 10.11V...nice...
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Post by 79transam » Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:21 am

I know onlybatterypacks has been warned against, but if this battery is infact what it claims to be, would it be good for airsoft use

http://onlybatterypacks.com/showitem.as ... D=10045.25
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Post by Miker » Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:27 am

I have a quick question. If I were to need another battery, where would I be able to get a GP pack from?

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Post by 79transam » Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:30 am

is GP gold peak? or are they diffrent
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Post by Guges Mk3 » Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:28 am

Gold Peak are very good cells. But, how would you know your getting one with opaque wrap.

And at 18.00 for a pack...I highly doubt its gold peak.
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Post by 79transam » Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:42 am

The exposed battery at the end looks exaclty like a GP battery cell, same font and coloring. Is it possiable to have mixed cells in a pack, and can you open a pack and have them repacked afterwards?
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Post by Guges Mk3 » Sun Mar 11, 2007 4:44 am

Anything is possible...you can buy clear shrink and rewrap a pack...but what pict are you refering to?
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Post by 79transam » Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:30 am

http://www.hobbyetc.com/jpeg/G/GP1100pic1.jpg

thats the pic i am refering too
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Post by Guges Mk3 » Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:42 am

And you think thats in the OBP pack?
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Post by Mac/Pistol Man » Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:47 am

Would it be a bad idea to get some intellect cells and make my own pack?

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Post by 79transam » Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:08 am

Guges Mk3 wrote:And you think thats in the OBP pack?
At the end of the pack opposite where the connector is, a battery is visible and it is that battery cell

Image
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Post by skunksquatch » Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:34 am

Not to be too cynical, but that is just one cell.

Without the clear wrap how is one to know that the other cells are not something else?
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Post by Miker » Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:58 am

I say take it off and see. than put clear stuff on.

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Post by Guges Mk3 » Sun Mar 11, 2007 2:00 pm

ooo...perfect.

Put a partial cut up the back and curl the edges over to see the middle cells. Then you can clear packing tape it back to maintain the shrink...let us know, let us know!
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Post by 79transam » Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:10 pm

I will do that. And I know its only 1 cell, I was asking if its possiable to even mix and match and still have the battery work.
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Post by K9Troop » Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:13 pm

You can mix and match cells all you want and the battery will still perform. If I'm not mistaken though, the output of the pack will only be as good as the weakest cell.

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Post by 79transam » Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:50 am

Well guys every cell in there is a 1100MAH GP nimh cell. So the pack appears to be legit. Now can I just tape this back up or can I shrink wrap it or what?
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Post by Guges Mk3 » Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:44 am

yes you can...interesting...
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