TAGinn products

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Ozzy
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TAGinn products

Post by Ozzy » Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:09 pm

yea i'm late to the game but.....

Who has used them and how good are they? Do MN fields even allow these?

http://taginn.com/

http://airsoftpyrotechnics.com/
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Re: TAGinn products

Post by gottabea1911 » Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:35 pm

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say no. I have yet to see a field that will allow smoke the has a exposed flame and those look to be like throwing fire crackers at people. Again I cant speak for the field owners but I would think it a safety concern.
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Re: TAGinn products

Post by andre » Tue Dec 22, 2015 6:12 pm

I know Rekkon has used them a bunch but never in Minnesota.
My impression is they're classified as fireworks so that makes them illegal here (in Minnesota).

Having been on the receiving end of the timed rounds, I can say it's pretty crazy having rounds literally bursting in the air over your head. :shock:
The impact rounds are cool when they work.
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Re: TAGinn products

Post by Ozzy » Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:25 am

andre wrote: The impact rounds are cool when they work.
I was afraid of that when I saw the product video. Seems you need a few conditions to be met in order for them to work @ 100%. :| I'd like to find out how much force is needed to set off the impact ones.
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Re: TAGinn products

Post by Rekkon » Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:21 am

Yes, I have a ton of TAG stuff. I have been operating under the assumption the pyro rounds are treated like fireworks (the fun ones anyway) and thus not allowed in Minnesota. I have used them in Wisconsin at Apoc. The field owner gave his OK, though individual event organizers have to approve them as well. Some have; some have not. I have not been to any other WI fields since TAG rounds became available, so I do not know if Apoc is an exception or the standard.

Dummy Rounds
Being non-pyro, these are of course fine to use in Minnesota (obviously with organizer approval). They are also the cheapest, coming out to $4-5 each after shipping, which puts them on par with NERF rockets. Officially they are single use, but I have recovered plenty of them in serviceable condition. A hard impact, say into plywood, will deform the nose. I have one such round that survived that twice. It is considerably worse for wear but could be fired again. Most shots that hit dirt/grass/whatever only end up with minor damage/scuffing and are perfectly functional.

Chalk Rounds
Also non-pyro, they are filled with chalk powder and supposed to break on impact. What most people have found is that they are little too sturdy for their own good. I have recovered several that did not break or only cracked, meaning they did not really mark the target and were less suitable for reuse (leaking powder everywhere they went). They are slightly more expensive than the dummy rounds and have a somewhat more limited niche.

Time Delay Rounds
Now we get to the fun stuff. These have a 2-3 second delay after being fired. You can start the fuse by whacking them Saving-Private-Ryan style on something, but it is relatively difficult to do by accident. There is a video from the company of the rounds being whacked around with a hockey stick, and they only go off when hit on the rear. Earlier this year I had one launch ~10 feet by a leaky shell, and it failed to arm (fortunately for everyone around me). The delay means the rounds will always go off, but it also limits their range. If you fire at a high angle, they will air burst, which may or may not be to your benefit as the timed rounds are filled with 50 BBs.

Impact Rounds
In theory these are cooler; in practice they are a bit more hit-or-miss. The problem is not the force required to detonate them, the problem is glancing hits do not seem to set them off. I had one skip off a roof, and at least two tumble after hitting twigs/branches and fail to detonate. As the most expensive rounds (~$8-10 apiece after shipping), you really need to consider your field conditions before using them. At some point I intend to see if these will make reasonably reliable high-angle mortar rounds, but I have not yet had the opportunity.

Smoke Rounds
These are the newest one, and though I have several cases, I have not gotten to use them yet. From available video, I am pretty sure that, like most small airsoft smokes, a single one will not make much of a screen. That is pretty much what the company says too. Use a single one for marking, 3+ to make a screen.

Hand Grenades
TAG also makes cylindrical hand grenades. They are larger and more expensive than TLSFx models, and I think they have a bigger boom too. The upsides are a shorter fuse (more like 3 seconds to the TLSFx's 7), a functional spoon (high end TLSFx models also have spoons) and *much* better fragmentation. Pea grenades are great for the boom, but they do not scatter much. TAG grenades are compressed polystyrene filled with 200 BBs. The shell shatters, and the BBs go everywhere. I threw one in one of the Apoc "warehouses," and you could hear the BBs hitting all over the place.

Safety
The sound level of the pyro rounds is less than that of a Thunder B, and the explosion is substantially weaker than a TLSFx ("pea") hand grenade, which should be obvious given the smaller, lighter device. The biggest risk is someone being struck directly by the projectile. At Vigilance I had someone shoot me in the chest with a dummy round from around 6 feet and it hurt like a bitch (evidence). I have never been hit by a NERF round though, so I cannot compare the two. My guess is that TAG rounds are no more dangerous if limited to anti-vehicle use. The snag of course is that people are going to want to fire their pyro rounds at groups of infantry, which increases the risk. Supposedly someone in WI was hit in the head with one. How much of a risk this is, I cannot say, but event organizers are keeping it in mind.

Fire Risk
Pretty low, probably less than standard "cold burning" smoke (which started a fire at Assault on Derbent). There are several test videos out there of people setting off 203 round and hand grenades in things like dry leaves (also a video of a guy setting off a hand grenade in his hand and getting shot by one of the impact rounds). The devices do smoke when activated, but they do not vent sparks like TLSFx grenades. Again, as I have not yet had a chance to use the smoke rounds, I cannot evaluate their risk.

Cost
It should go without saying that using these things is not cheap. Projectiles will run you $4-10 apiece, and even the dummy rounds you should only count on getting to use once (between getting lost and damaged). This is on top of the launcher shells, which are in the $80 range, and propellant to power them. I saw a video where a guy HPA tapped his shell so he only needed one, or you could drop a lot of money on TAG's new standalone launcher (no shells, CO2 powered).

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.
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Re: TAGinn products

Post by Ozzy » Wed Dec 23, 2015 1:20 pm

I saw a video where a guy HPA tapped his shell so he only needed one
that's my aim.

the secondary part of my question about the impact/fuse delay rounds and the force necessary to set them off is because i plan of testing the rounds inside a box magazine. I wanted to know how much force of impact the rounds can withstand before they get triggered. Basically....do you think if I had say? .... 5 impact rounds neatly stacked in a single stack fashion magazine of sort...and I dropped that mag or it banged up against something hard, I'm not gunna be too worried about it prematurely blowin up right?

and about the fuse delay rounds....you mentioned it gets triggered from force applied to the rear of the round. any idea how much force? same set up as question above but now add force being generated by a round being chambered into a barrel and feeding the fuse delay round like a shotgun would feed a shell. do you think the force of that is too much and would set off the fuse?


also...the hand thrown grenades, how sturdy is the casing? I know it's made of compressed polystyrene, but will it break if I happen fall on it or blunt force impact? (I'm a ninja, I do ninja shit)

btw...thanks a bunch for this info, this is golden to me.
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Re: TAGinn products

Post by Rekkon » Wed Dec 23, 2015 3:59 pm

I am not completely sure, but the impact rounds may have a safety mechanism that is only armed after firing. If that is the case, you would need a strong whack in the rear to arm it, then another (probably smaller) impact on the front for them to detonate. You can hear/feel something "twangy" inside the timed rounds; I can check if the impact ones are similar when I get home. I have no numbers, but the arming force for the timed rounds is significant and has to be applied to the rear. I highly doubt chambering one shotgun-style by hand would do it. TAG's safety video will probably be useful for you. He specifically drops one from head height and it does not arm. Also crushes one with a hockey stick.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH6acDTXotg

My impression is that using them in a box mag would be pretty safe. I worry more about falling on and breaking my shell tubes/projectiles than having them detonate on me. Extrapolating from the videos and my experience, I think you would have to deliberately abuse them to get them to blow. Maybe a metal box mag falling 7+ feet onto concrete and hitting just right would do it. That seems pretty unlikely. If you are super paranoid, run a strip of foam down the inside of the magazine where the rear of the rounds it, maybe behind a piece of plastic so the rounds still slide nicely but get some cushion should the worst happen. Were I making such a magazine, I would not bother.

This video has a slow motion detonation of an impact round.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITx_-qTC-uY

Fire Test
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyGdeFewbh4

There is a video of some Russians using the delay rounds Saving-Private-Ryan style (from a tank no less), but I cannot find it at the moment. There are a lot more "testing" videos out there for these things now, so go blow some "research" time on Youtube. If you want a non-glowing review, check out Airsoft GI's impressions.

The hand grenades are pretty sturdy. I do pay attention to wear I store them so my entire weight does not get applied to one, but I have not had one break on me yet. Dropping one should do nothing. Putting one in your back pocket and falling on your ass probably breaks it, but carrying them in any reasonably protected location is likely fine. I have had them on my belt, on/in a butt pack, in a chest rig and hanging from an ALICE harness. All fine. I "opened" a non-working one by stomping on it earlier this year. It died, but not easily.

On another note, you know when the hand grenades have armed. There is a snap and they start hissing. The charge is basically a firecracker, and its fuse is burning internally. I imagine the timed rounds are similar as you can seem them lightly smoking during flight.
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Re: TAGinn products

Post by Rekkon » Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:37 pm

Impact rounds seems to also have that "twangy" thing inside, so my *guess* is they are not armed until launch. As I am not about to disassemble explosives in my apartment, this guess remains unconfirmed.
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Re: TAGinn products

Post by Gir » Thu Dec 24, 2015 8:23 am

I just noticed their GP-30'ish grenade launcher they have on their site. THAT is actually really cool. I wish it didn't cost more than a real AK47 costs, but the concept is genius. I would buy that solely to launch nerf footballs with, if the barrel was a little bit longer.
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Re: TAGinn products

Post by Jonesy » Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:56 pm

Rekkon wrote:Impact rounds seems to also have that "twangy" thing inside, so my *guess* is they are not armed until launch. As I am not about to disassemble explosives in my apartment, this guess remains unconfirmed.
Paul and I cut them open. We're hardcore like that.

It's got a pressure fuse which isn't armed until the shell is discharged. The rest is just flash cotton and BBs.

And yeah, we use the ever loving hell out of these at Apoc. I'm in the process of getting dealership, and we'll be selling them out of the onsite shop this year.

They're awesome.
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